Telecom petition > : )

[HomerNZ]

hey all managed to log on for a bit while im at tech cruz on over here and take a look see ... *sign* ... *sign now* ...

man subliminal messaging doesnt work in forums :(

anyways its a petition for telecom to get the a$$ in gear about the "broadband" they offer here in NZ

www.petitiononline.com/nzadsl/petition.html

[2 much thinking]

Sorry to burst your bubble but Whetu posted that link in this (http://forums.overclockers.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9747) thread, :p

Don't know if it will actually be of any pressure to telecom tho :(

[cadmax]

good :) thanks for that

[whetu]

Originally posted by 2 much thinking
Sorry to burst your bubble but Whetu posted that link in this (http://forums.overclockers.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9747) thread, :p

yep, and my comments can be read at signature number 107

Ive since changed my opinion slightly to be more along the lines of hang on...

*copies and pastes from the hub*

[14:07] <whetu> [13:57] <[OCNZ]Antimatter> Telescum should have 512k unlimited national and 5 gb international as standard
<-- they should have 2mbit national (or full rate national) unlimited data, and differing steps for international such as 128k/10gig, 256k/5gig, 384k/3gig, 512k/1gig and so on.. the point is it should promote expansion of the national infrastructure
[14:08] <[OCNZ]Antimatter> that's more like it
[14:08] <whetu> the reason for 2mbit national is elementary - when they setup a line for dsl it has to be capable of 2mbit or they wont bother
[14:08] <whetu> (actually they will bother - they'll renew the line and all intermediatary connections between the exchange and you to get it up to 2mbit minimum)

[Tiggerz]

I'd prefer (my own opinion) that telecom were left to mess things up quietly and then got brought out by telstra.

I've never been keen on copper based technology. They might as well use two paper cups and a bit of string.

Most of my collegues are on 25mbit and 50mbit connections uncapped. I find it rather odd, that the only thing nz can manage for the average joe is a kilabit connection, capped and split between national/international.

Basically, no matter how much window dressing they put on it, they are all basically ripping off the customer and at the same time trying to make use of redundant technology.

A real telco, would use fibre.

[extremerigman]

I agree Tiggerz!

Fibre definately is more future proof and has a wider spectrum than old copper technology.

The only problem Telstra is finding is the cost of laying cables, a friend from telstra told me they slowed down the cable develoopment of CHCH because it was too expensive to lay cables.

[Bung]

Don't hang too many hopes on Telstra. This is the same telco that has stopped it's ADSL rollout in Australia until the money looks better.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by extremerigman
I agree Tiggerz!

Fibre definately is more future proof and has a wider spectrum than old copper technology.

The only problem Telstra is finding is the cost of laying cables, a friend from telstra told me they slowed down the cable develoopment of CHCH because it was too expensive to lay cables.

Umm - not slowed down - STOPPED.

My house ( in ChCh ) doesn't have cable, and is now indefinately postponed for ever getting it. Originally, I was 2003-2004. Then when they hit troubles and pushed everthing back, my area became '2005+'.

Forget Telstra, their push into NZ has failed :(.

[Mashed_Penguin]

I can see an ugly black telstra cable from my bedroom window, that is on the street next to mine. Why did they stop one street away from mine damn it :mad:

[MoNk]

I have Saturn labeled potholes down my street on the footpath. But no cable or saturntv available :(

[mird-OC]

Telstra's rollout plan for Chch would've been near completion by now, based on the original plan.

it happened to be that a large amount of cash that was earmarked for the rollout got a huge chunk taken out of it when Telstra decided to acquire Clear Communications. i don't know why they swallowed that fly, may be they'll die.

[arkangelsk]

Yeap - TSL stopped the roll out in christchurch indefinately. Basically it hasn't been a matter of running out of money to do so because they purchased clear communications (CC). Basically the view was that if we get the local loop unbundling (LLU) then we can buy instead of build. Obviously buying access via tcnz copper is a heck of a lot cheaper and they should get access to the layer 2 dsl stuff to pimp their 'Smart Services' (tv + cable) - only problem with that is that their christchurch network is 100x better than tcnz copper, namely because they can put the tv and cable internet stuff on seperate lines with more room.

Interestingly enough the rumour is that if NZ does not get LLU, and we become like Mexico and are the only other country in the OECD not to go with LLU then TSL is looking at the following two options: 1) Continuing the Rollout with the current architecture or 2) Moving to a wireless network architecture. At present they are already looking at wireless but hey.. who knows.

and for those of you who get wireless network architecture confused with what Walker Wireless do then think again. Basically the idea is to have a base station out at the node and one at the main distribution point so as to remove the hundreds of k's of cable and then from the node they cable out to your house just like a normal telco. - It removes a portion of the cost of rolling a HUGE hunk of fibre out to the node + maintaining that fibre and it means all they have to cable is from the node to the little green boxes or the poles (joint enclosures) and from there to your house like everyone else does.

Telstra Australia has apparently said that no matter what they want the following: A mobile network in NZ and a business network in nz (if they build the business network then the residential network will follow hand in hand)

So - 1) they might be a disorganised bunch at the moment but they did just go through a merger and if they haven't got their sh*t sorted by this time next year I'd be very suprised and 2) they are here to stay much to Teressa's dislike

[Bung]

Unbundling won't be the cure-all for everyone. There must be a limit to the amount of DSL that old twisted pair cable can carry before interferance between pairs becomes a problem.
Somebody will have to invest in new delivery methods.
That will probably stop the price falling much.

[ktulu]

Originally posted by Bung
Unbundling won't be the cure-all for everyone. There must be a limit to the amount of DSL that old twisted pair cable can carry before interferance between pairs becomes a problem.
Somebody will have to invest in new delivery methods.
That will probably stop the price falling much.

Disagree there... as technology progresses... we'll find better ways of seperating the signal form the noise.

[whetu]

new zealanders are new zealanders... we'll hack as much as we can out of what exists before ever giving into the temptation of "progress" A good push to fibre could be 10-20 years away at this rate :(

we like to call ourselves innovative/inventive/resourceful as a result, comparing to fun old times with #8 wire and a smelly gumboot which of course strokes our tall poppy syndrome infested egos

doing so also keeps as much money as possible firmly in our wallets...

telecom is just a behemoth version of the same...

[WhiteDragon]

Originally posted by ktulu
Disagree there... as technology progresses... we'll find better ways of seperating the signal form the noise. They've found lots of ways to hugely increase fibre optic bandwidth and I'm sure they'll be squeezing out heaps more in the future. Copper lines, using various techniques, can handle 6Mb+ at the moment and I'm sure that will be improved too. Telecom (and many other Telcos around the world) don't want to replace the existing communications infrastucture with fibre optic as the costs would be enormous, hence the necessity to keep developing and refining what we can do with the infrastructure we've got.

[Joshsti_NZ]

Even Juha Saarinen from PC world has signed it

3138. Juha Saarinen Have been campaigning for lower broadband prices and better options since 1997.

[whetu]

juha is the man. restecp.

in other news the rant has been updated with fresh information and opinions (and tidied up a little)... its a touch more interesting and informative now

http://g33kflat.skankyflat.net/articles/telecom.html

[k14]

Ooohh, mite get a mention in next months PC world. That would definately get alot more peoples signatures!

[carlito]

Hey guys flipside have decided to post a link to the petition following my (and I'm sure some other people asked as well) request to them that they run a story on it.


Cheers for that - tech headline on this will run in the web-only segment of flipside (streaming video only), and there will be a web-link to the petition posted on the front page of the site. Thank you for providing contact details - we may choose to do a full television story on broadband (or a related issue) in the near future.

Jeremy Hall
Web Producer
FLIPSIDE


They wont be playing it on the televised show yet, but it will be in their simulcast - what I am asking is that some more people email them or tell them of their dismay at telecom and the general state of broadband in NZ.
Broadband plays an important part in the way flipside plans to present itself to the public so I think this issue is pretty important to them.

Much respect to Juha but Flipside is more 'mainstream' and indeed is national TV. We couldnt really ask for more exposure than that and we're more likely to be heard by these guys than TVOne or Three news.

So c'mon guys get to the website at make yourselves heard!

[MoNk]

Good work.

On a side note: I hate flipside so so sosososo sooooo much.

[carlito]

shhhhhhhhhh dont tell anyone.............

but I dont watch them either ;)

but hey, they're our best bet

[Tiggerz]

I read the petition. While I agree with the national uncapped limit at 2mbit, I didnt with the internation limit and I think your data cap on this is way out of the ballpark. I think you should be looking at a lowest data cap of 10gig, I also think that bandwidth should not be linked to data cap.

[carlito]

read the petition?

great stuff

but do you mind me asking if you signed it?
:p

[whetu]

Originally posted by Tiggerz
I read the petition. While I agree with the national uncapped limit at 2mbit, I didnt with the internation limit and I think your data cap on this is way out of the ballpark. I think you should be looking at a lowest data cap of 10gig, I also think that bandwidth should not be linked to data cap.

now I really feel like Doogie's avatar. You of all people should realise that the petition != my rant, and the name of the petition starter != "whetu"

I did not start the petition. Nein, never, nilch. Nor have I ever claimed to have done so. Please get that right.

While I do agree that the caps arent right, you have to be realistic. Anyone who NEEDS (and I mean NEEDS) to download more than 10gig a month international is probably up to some business activities and should be on a business connection.

If they are a small business or prosumer, then the telco's should offer connection options to suit. The point of my suggested options were to cater for 1)jo(e) bloggs 2)kiddy gamer 3)downloader of which only the downloader is potentially going to consistently chew through more than 10gig per month. Any other demographics are outside the scope of the article, so try to talk apples with apples with me.

You might note my emphasis on promoting national transfers? This means that downloaders should be a bit more collaborative and organised in their downloading - only a few download internationally and then those files filter through nationally, instead of everyone downloading internationally. With a distributed effort, no downloader should ever pass 10gigs. The national model also means that telco's should hopefully (I doubt it but it's worth a shot) be more inclined to advance the national infrastructure, which ultimately means better things for all :)

In an ideal world everbody in all countries would all be on broadband connections by now, but this isnt an ideal world. What you think should happen wont happen in NZ anytime soon. What I think should happen can happen now (my second set of options) and in the near future (my first set of options) and hey.. my suggestions are better than what we've got now... be my guest if you want to stay on 128k ;)

You sound like you've only skimmed through the rant/article, I'd suggest you go back and read it thoroughly and "get" what it is I'm trying to say in it

[bob_dole_nz]

sure whetu... sure...

[Tiggerz]

actually I apologise, I did only skim through it. I was in the middle of training someone - so just had a few mins to catch up while I was waiting for them to finish an assignment.

But yeah, I did like the focus on the national usage model, I guess for most NZers this would be fine.

Just that its a big world out there and there are quite a few of us that don't even know a national model exists.

One of the futre directions of broadband is as a competitor to 3GPP, so the direction that I would like to see it take is to enable voice/video streaming. Having a 1Gb cap would be like telling someone they could only make a one hour international phone call per month.

The petition as I quickly read it, seemed to imply that telecom should bring out a model to support what consumers are currently doing now. Which is ok in my book, since its a good idea to bring telecom into line with the current consumer demand.

The main problem is that consumers are only doing what they do now, because they don't know thay they can do anything different.

One of the things we are doing with the digital home initiative is to enable voice/ip and streaming video (dvd and cable movies) to the desktop.

If you enable only national bandwidth all well and good, but the whole idea of the internet is that the world becomes a smaller place. It should be possible for a consumer to subscribe to services outside of NZ without having to pay a premium.

In one of my other emails I made the point about differentiating between service providers and content providers. What I left out is that there is no hard and fast rule that the content provider actually has to be NZ based.

So harping on a bit in my usual funny old way. I agree with the national high speed limit and things, but I don't agree that we should still allow them to handi-cap the international portion.

Having Playboy TV (or Fox TV for the more serious, or even CNN for those that like true and factual news) beamed direct to the desktop would and should be part of every NZrs broadband experience. :)

[carlito]

okay maybe I was little less than clear as well.

I'm well aware that whetu didnt organise the online petition
Keith Humm did that.

But anyways, you still havent said Tiggerz whether you signed the online petition or not :)

[Tiggerz]

nope I havn't.

My position is one of vendor neutrality. I'm focused more on the industry as a whole rather than how one body deals with it. :)

If I sign a petition against one, then I have to do it for all. Since I am likely to work with them in the future, its probably not a good idea. :)

[nicotine]

its been awhile, what happened, didnt telecom care?