C-Lan Venue

[Glippo]

Hi Guys,

For those of you that don't know me (which I would assume to be most of ya all), I am the one responsible for creating C-Lan (yes, the good and the bad ;p ), with a lot of help from a few of my mates.

There have been a lot of problems with C-Lan even from before the first event was even held @ 152 Lichfield and many more during the last 12 months. And not many of you have seen what it has taken to get to the level we had for the last couple of L3's. If any of you go into business for yourself I sure hope you have a better run than some of the things that we have had to deal with at C-Lan.

Since the easter lan I have been a great pains as to what I should do with C-Lan and where lanning in Chch is going. We have cancelled our lease at 152 Lichfield due to the landlords not delivering on the initial conditions of our lease and we have been looking about for another venue. We have found one that is quite suitable but not yet availiable. We have talked between ourselves about the network problems that are apparent with larger lans and what can be done to improve such issues and have looked at other problems that visitors to C-Lan have raised.

The short of it is that although C-Lan has cost me personally a lot I enjoy having it about. However the only thing that makes it worth while is the feedback and seeing people like yourselves having fun. C-Lan has not broken even over the last year and if C-Lan was to run in the same manner as the last couple of months (of which were on a par with break even once) it would still take quite a while from me to recover my investment in providing the venue.

If the next version of C-Lan is to go ahead there will be the following changes:

* Desks and seating to handle 120 people more comfortably
* A managed network infrastructure designed to allow for 120+ players/leechers
* Power the same or better to what we had upstairs at 152 Lichfield
* Several games servers for event holders to utilise
* Limited internet access

In supplying this new venue and the above things, lans at C-Lan would become more expensive. The pricing would have to change to be like LanPlace in Welly.

The only way this could be cheaper would be if the money was coming out of my own pocket. And I can not fund C-Lan to this level any longer. Bearing this in mind the pricing we would be setting is $25 per person for part of or all of a full 48hr event.

The will and persistance required to get the new C-Lan running is something we have. What we need to know from you, the gaming public is:

1) Do you still want C-Lan about?
2) If there was one thing that you could see fixed or changed in moving from the old C-Lan to the new what would it be?
3) If there was one thing that you would keep, what would it be?
4) Are you willing to pay $25 for a C-Lan event in a new venue as described?

Anything else you want to say... Comments, critique, etc ... feel free to add.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to reading your responses.

Jonathan aka Glippo
jonathan@c-lan.net.nz

[varkk]

Originally posted by Glippo

1) Do you still want C-Lan about?
2) If there was one thing that you could see fixed or changed in moving from the old C-Lan to the new what would it be?
3) If there was one thing that you would keep, what would it be?
4) Are you willing to pay $25 for a C-Lan event in a new venue as described?


1)Yup, we need a dedicated venue in the Chch area
2)I think nsome kind of simple cooking facility(microwave & kettle would do)
3)In town was good as it was in walking distance to most shops and usually things are open all hours in town and the couches (Actually more couches etc in a sleeping/relax corner would be cool if possible)
4)Yeah probably($25 is cheap for a weekends entertainment)

[Elle T]

1) Yes
2) Get rid of that stupid idea of fitting 5-6 ppl to a table, 4 is enough to get monitor interference as is.
3) Couches
4) Depends if thats on top of L3 fees or not

A seating and/or sleeping area is a must & also a shower would be nice as some ppl need one if they sleep there.

Also game servers aren't really something you need to provide as that is up to the organisers of what ever lan.
(Note Solid Snake has 2 Shuttle cubes for L3 + another due in a month or so)

Last but not least if you become like Lan Place that does mean that there would no filesharing allowed - atm your not in control of the Lans being held so your not lieible.

[CrazySurfaNZ]

I think another group may be going ahead with a design similar to clan.. so it may not be worth setting up a second one if they are already going ahead. pm me if you would like to get in touch with the people involved with this (tho i thought they had been in touch with you)

[Lord Booga]

We definitely need C-Lan (or similar) around IMHO.

I think servers should be left up to the LANee's, rather than C-LAN - since theres always a spare machine somewhere to be used.

Providing a DC hub (might be a bit dodgy with the content), or webserver might be useful, but not game servers, I don't think the cost is justified for the use.

I'd pay 25$ for an event, but not on top of L3 standard fee's (20$), I'd go as high as 35$ maybe.

Some decent CHAIRS, those plastic ones play absolute hell with my back, and are bloody uncomfortable. I know that good chairs would be expensive, but even slightly better ones (mmm.. padding) would be nice :)

Some kind of cooking facility would be good, even just a microwave.

A FRIDGE! Thats what we need :P

[Geek4Life]

Network all set up with DHCP and limited internet access.

Desks that don't leave your case/monitor on a 15° angle.

[Eagle32]

g4l.. dhcp at lans is 1.) not your friend, 2.) not the venues problem, the logical topology should be handled by the individual lan organisers.

1.) C-Lan is deffinitly a good thing. I guess the people who's opinions count the most tho is the organisers of the events and wether they wish to continue using it. Tho why the hell anyone wouldn't want a nice location with known amounts of power/tables/etc i dont know. In conclusion YES to c-lan :p

2.) A shower or 2 somewhere wouldn't go a miss... but i dont really expect miracles. Many lanners for many years have lived without them.

3.) C-lan in some form!

4.) Yes to the $25, but as everyone else is saying it would be a no if it was in addition to l3's usual fee's.

Crazysurfa... this really isn't a big business area, why anyone would want to setup a competeing operation i'd never know. As Glippo says he's lost money on it the last year. A competeing outfit is likely to end up in both failing completely and us, the lan go'ers, sufering for it.

[TheChosen_1]

1: Yes A very good thing. More Lan venues are needed in CHCH.
2: Yes a Fridge would be great. Also better looking toilet facilities, more comfortable chairs and better tables.
3: Near town as possible. As what Vark said was perfect.
4: Yes but not with L3 fees on top of that. I would want to pay $25 maximum combined with L3 fees. Maybe $30max.

[Glippo]

About the pricing:

I have two prospective systems in mind for pricing and each of them means C-Lan operates in a different manner to what it currently does.

1) For a 48 hour event, C-Lan charges $25 plus whatever the event organiser wants to put on top. After the event C-Lan pays out the event organiser the amount over and above that $25.
2) C-Lan charges $30 per month to members and runs at least one members-only tournament event per month. This $30 would also entitle the member to get into one other event free of C-Lan’s fee i.e. if XYZ gaming group ran a LAN that a member wanted to attend, and the price for that event was $30 you would only pay $5. If the price was $25, you would get in free.

The second option provides the most stability for C-Lan, and also brings about what I would like to see the gaming community in Christchurch have - a competitive environment for the hard core gamers.

C-Lan (under this second option) would run more like a sports club, with deathmatch and other ladders in place so we could all see the best gamer on a month to month basis. Prizes would be provided on a tournament and monthly basis e.g. spot prizes for the most improved player(s) this month, 1st place prizes for an event, etc.

We have been thinking about this style of venue for the last six month and had been planning to utilise 152 Lichfield in this manner. Planning had been taking place over the last 3 months and we were going to re-launch in May – until the issues that we were having with the landlords became unbearable.

So that’s my and obilix’s take on it… either of these two pricing systems will work based on our costing structure.

Your thoughts?

[Wibber]

why not use both?
I myself would most likely pay for membership, depending on ease of access, as would manty others, but many first time lan goers might be a bit put off by it, I dunno

[.weasel.]

1: Yes. as many have mentioned there are very few places in chch that offer a 3 day lan.

2: Get a microwave, jug, dish washing facilitys, and possibly an oven. That should be more than enough to keep us happy :)

3: Keep is as central to town as possible, as it makes it easier for most people to get there, and is easier for buying extra food and drink because of the 24/7 type supermarkets.

4: As long as it was not on top of the organisers fees, it would not be a problem.

[Binky Stunt Cat]

1) Do you still want C-Lan about?
Ja. that we do

2) If there was one thing that you could see fixed or changed in moving from the old C-Lan to the new what would it be?
More comfertable chairs.

3) If there was one thing that you would keep, what would it be?
Ummmmmm...not really

4) Are you willing to pay $25 for a C-Lan event in a new venue as described?
Quite probably, yes.

Well, here are my few thoughts on the subject:
Are you planning on getting all this ready for the first lan you have? I know KJ is keen on having a maximum of 80 people at the next L3 (although i could be wrong), SSnake is building all those servers, and we've survived without showers, jugs, microwaves, etc before.
So what i'm saying is: get the basics in place first, then move on to the flashier stuff..

Also, I think the prizes for competitions will be a bad idea. We currenty have a small prize (ie: spindle of cds, free entry next time) for the winners of the L# tournies, and that keeps the atmosphere at a nicelevel. If people were competing for hundreds of dollars worth of gear, then things would start to get a little tense.

As for the sub thing, sounds good, although i know that many lan goers are students, and may not have $30 a month left over to spend :(
There has also been talk of an L3 membership as well, but mainly by everyone else bar KJ and SS.

Oh.....and can we have more space between tables for walking through? :p

[Artifice]

1) yes I am starting to miss the lan
2) you know those screws that hold the legs onto the bottom of the tables. well in quite a few places they go just 0.5mm too far and push up the top of the tables. not a problem if you use a mouse mat. but I wasnt.
3)locale. but if you want to put it in my street that would be cool. pity there isnt anything suitable here though. :)
4) yeah i could go to $25 but... :eek: j/k sounds like kj would be getting cut out of the loop. looks like a highjacking. well i guess the L3 would probably only charge a $5 on top of the venue fees. I get lanned out at 1 a month.

[Sydog]

What I would like to see is just a big venue at a good locale with decent tables and chairs and decent toilets. Maybe even a permanent network infrastructure.

IMO that would be an excellent venue, scrap the extras (servers ect) there are always surplus servers around nowadays.

[Glippo]

Originally posted by Artifice

4) yeah i could go to $25 but... :eek: j/k sounds like kj would be getting cut out of the loop. looks like a highjacking. well i guess the L3 would probably only charge a $5 on top of the venue fees. I get lanned out at 1 a month.

One thing I do not want to do is cut KJ or SS or L3 out of the picture. $25 is the amount that it would cost to provide a venue that we feel would meet pretty much everyones level of expectation.

These were my thoughts on that level...
Originally posted by Glippo


* Desks and seating to handle 120 people more comfortably
* A managed network infrastructure designed to allow for 120+ players/leechers
* Power the same or better to what we had upstairs at 152 Lichfield
* Several games servers for event holders to utilise
* Limited internet access


As for prizes, I wasn't thinking of a $1000 first prize every month sort of thing. Just something that would recognise the achievement of those that had fought with so much gusto :) and ofcourse the top place on the deathmatch or tournament ladder.

Servers are something that would be available for event organisers to use.. they would be by no means compulsory and there would be allocated network ports for dedicated servers supplied by the likes of KJ/SS.

Running the venue with membership style pricing would not preclude the new and potential members just attending for one event or even those that don't wish to pay a monthly fee. However those that did would get precedence over door sales for seating.

Just to re-iterate about the pricing ... a large portion of the $20 that you have paid in the past has gone to venue rental. I would not imagine that you would have to pay $20 on top of the $25 C-Lan fees.

Originally posted by Glippo
1) For a 48 hour event, C-Lan charges $25 plus whatever the event organiser wants to put on top. After the event C-Lan pays out the event organiser the amount over and above that $25.
2) C-Lan charges $30 per month to members and runs at least one members-only tournament event per month. This $30 would also entitle the member to get into one other event free of C-Lan’s fee i.e. if XYZ gaming group ran a LAN that a member wanted to attend, and the price for that event was $30 you would only pay $5. If the price was $25, you would get in free.


Cheers,

Jonathan

[Glippo]

Originally posted by CrazySurfaNZ
I think another group may be going ahead with a design similar to clan.. so it may not be worth setting up a second one if they are already going ahead. pm me if you would like to get in touch with the people involved with this (tho i thought they had been in touch with you)

Hi CrazySurfa,

I agree having two venues would probably exceed demand. Given the time and money that it has taken to build C-Lan however I am keen to see that investment put to use. It took 12 months to get C-Lan anywhere near breaking even.

I haven't heard from any others about new venues. I have only heard what you have said about a prospective new venue in other threads. I am keen to talk things through with other parties should the opportunity arise.

I have PM'ed you to hopefully put me in touch...

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Elle T]

Originally posted by Glippo
As for prizes, I wasn't thinking of a $1000 first prize every month sort of thing. Just something that would recognise the achievement of those that had fought with so much gusto :) and ofcourse the top place on the deathmatch or tournament ladder.

Maybe the VM crowd would be keen but like most L3 Attendies do not want anything that would attract Kiddie Gamers like prizes do. (points out why no one wants to play UT2K3 anymore)

Servers are something that would be available for event organisers to use.. they would be by no means compulsory and there would be allocated network ports for dedicated servers supplied by the likes of KJ/SS.


I'd say $2500 or so for two decent game servers - better off having none so we don't have to pay more so you can pay them off.

Running the venue with membership style pricing would not preclude the new and potential members just attending for one event or even those that don't wish to pay a monthly fee. However those that did would get precedence over door sales for seating.
Umm well as far as i know L3 Regulars will always have pesidence over anyone else as that is a L3 policy some how i don't think KJ will change that.

Just to re-iterate about the pricing ... a large portion of the $20 that you have paid in the past has gone to venue rental. I would not imagine that you would have to pay $20 on top of the $25 C-Lan fees.
If its $25 + L3 fees then you better be providing the all the Network gear - not just cables we're talking rapier switches etc.

[Glippo]

Originally posted by Elle T
Maybe the VM crowd would be keen but like most L3 Attendies do not want anything that would attract Kiddie Gamers like prizes do. (points out why no one wants to play UT2K3 anymore)

The Tournament events are designed for those that want to compete at that level and are there to help keep the pricing down for other events. Hopefully we can attract more people to use C-Lan and reduce prices as attendance goes up but at the moment $25 is the expected amount.

Originally posted by Elle T
I'd say $2500 or so for two decent game servers - better off having none so we don't have to pay more so you can pay them off.

For the tournament events we need servers so they are going to be there. If L3 chooses to utilise them then they will be made available.

Originally posted by Elle T
Umm well as far as i know L3 Regulars will always have pesidence over anyone else as that is a L3 policy some how i don't think KJ will change that.

I expect C-Lan to run in a similar format to LanPlace where L3 can be a private event (invite only) or public ... Space would be available for 120+ people and I wouldn't expect anything else but for precedence to be given to existing L3 attendees but that is a KJ/SS call not mine.

Originally posted by Elle T
If its $25 + L3 fees then you better be providing the all the Network gear - not just cables we're talking rapier switches etc.

I am very familar with the requirements of a network of that size and rapier level switch pricing/specs have crossed my desk...

Originally posted by Glippo
* A managed network infrastructure designed to allow for 120+ players/leechers

Exact network hardware would be decided in consultation our customers to ensure that it meet the needs of said customers and C-Lan.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tiggerz]

Well personally, I would have thought that with the Orion chaps wanting to pump some money into the chch lanning scene, as well as Harvy Normans wanting to hold a proper gaming lan, I would have thought it would have been more logical for everyone to band together and do a bit of joint leveraging.

[RockBoy]

Glippo: the new Lan venue from the "other" group is going ahead the premise has been found and isnt far away from opening in my understanding, Ive seen the venue and talked to people about the plans and it will be a rocking place and all very doable hopefully Crazy will get in touch with ya cos it would be a shame for 2 factions to go head to head in the chch market as it will just end up neither will survive and then we are back to square one :(


RB

[Glippo]

RockBoy,

I agree...

Cheers,

jonathan

[Sumo]

Specifications:
- good surroundings
- good bathroom/toilet facilities
- reliable cabling, network and power
- NO GLARE
- Kitchen / water / etc
- Close to food places etc

[SledgY]

From the last few lans I have been to, the main requirement has to be a decent network. Turning up to a lan and finding the network isn't even ready to go as well as not having it going properly for most of the night was disappointing.

I like the idea of having it run like a sports club and would be more than happy to pay $25-30 per month to be a member. Trying to run any organisation without a known amount of income each month is always going to be difficult.

I have to agree with saying that food prep area's are not 100% needed, we have gone without them in the past, concentrating on the more important (and actually needed) areas have to be the first focus. But, if you really really must have a microwave (and if CLan is going to be a non profit sports club style setup) I'd be happy to donate one.

[Benedict]

VENTILATION! I cannot stress this enough. I really can't. Dear god, do none of you have olfactory senses?!?!?!?!

[ktulu]

Imagine what the LANs were like back in the Victorian times when they only had a bath once a year :D

[Tobiaz[nz]]

o and remember at lans in Victorian times where there where no such things as computers. all they did is sat at desks in dark rooms yelling out 'Bang Bang, Die Noob' as they drew on paper with ink pens

[Binky Stunt Cat]

Originally posted by Tobiaz[nz]
o and remember at lans in Victorian times where there where no such things as computers. all they did is sat at desks in dark rooms yelling out 'Bang Bang, Die Noob' as they drew on paper with ink pens
there is such a thing as a joke gone too far.
You sir, have just taken it there.

[KingJackal]

I WAS going to write a nice long 'LAN VENUE <RANT>', but it seems I won't have to. The C-LAN guys have basically pulled out of their plans to re-start C-LAN elsewhere.

Thing is, there were to be 2 or 3 seperate LAN venues opening in ChCh. And while some of you would probably think 'cool, competition', it's actually rather stupid. Not an average idea, not even a bad idea - but completely and utterly stupid.

ChCh is not ( and I doubt ever will be ) big enough to sustain multiple venues that cater soley to such a niche market as LANing. If multiple venues were to have opened, either:
- Only one would have survived because of the obvious fact that ChCh's LANing scene just ain't that big.
- They all would have gone under, because each would have gotten only a portion of the already small income possible from LAN venue users ( and so costs > income ).

Setting up such a venue will normally require upwards of $20,000 per year in venue hire alone ( the main choke ), and so obviously, if multiple venues went under, that also represents multiple people going very negative in their bank-balances.

As such, while it is immensely disappointing to see the C-LAN guys have to give up on one of their idea's ( one that never got a run of good luck to push it into profits :| ), it is the right decision for them to make.

I wish them all the best with their upcoming endeavors, and I'm pretty sure they'll take their business plans to markets that don't rely on trying to eek out a living soley off broke students :).

It'll be interesting to see how the other group go - though they definately won't be making any significant amount of money out of it. If luck is with them, they just might break even. I just hope they don't wind up as poor as others that have tried and found out how hard it is ( C-LAN, LAN-IT, etc - LANplace hardly counts given it's owned by a multi-millionaire, heh ).

[CommanderK]

Originally posted by Binky Stunt Cat
there is such a thing as a joke gone too far.
You sir, have just taken it there.

Whats wrong with a laugh? Have a sense of humor man!

[ktulu]

Originally posted by CommanderK
Whats wrong with a laugh? Have a sense of humor man!

Binky doesn't have a sense of humour :rolleyes:

[Binky Stunt Cat]

Tobiaz doesn't have a talent for making funny jokes.

[Sumo]

Originally posted by Binky Stunt Cat
Tobiaz doesn't have a talent for making funny jokes.

Cool a flaming thread in the LAN section.........

[CommanderK]

Originally posted by Binky Stunt Cat
Tobiaz doesn't have a talent for making funny jokes.

And?

[KingJackal]

*sigh*

You know, occasionally you guys manage to stay on track....

...sadly, this doesn't look like it's going to happen :|.