Intel overclocking for even nOOber nOObs

[farns]

So far all I have ever done to a computer to date is installed more ram and new vidcard so I dont know much.

Got heaps of Qs so anyways..

I am trying to upgrade my pIII 450(100 mhz, 2 V) with a 1gig coppermine celeron (100 mhz, 1.75 V) with a slocket on my Slot 1 BX mobo
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/ga6bxc.htm

Do I just unplug the cpu fan from the mobo and lift out the cpu+hsf+fan all in one?
As far as I can see theres nothing retaining it but it wont come out , just wanna check before I really try and pull hard lol :D

My mobo says it has auto-detect voltage so hopefully the drop from 2V to 1.75V wont be a problem, dunno if it supports that low though.

My mobo only supports 112 and 133 fsb overclocks so I tried to OC the pIII 450 to 112 fsb (504mhz) on the **** 8cfm stock fan, everything seemed fine in windows but my "primary IDE controller" had an error.
All I did was set the SW1 dip switches to 112 fsb as per the manual. I dont know if I should have changed anything else when doing an overclock.

It looks like my 5400 rpm 8mb quantum fireball HD
http://www.hwupgrade.com/hd/quantum_cr8400/
doesnt like OCing at all but I wanna replace it anyway.

If anyone lives within an hour of Taupo( er that leaves Rotovegas I spose) I could get you a doz beer or whatever if I could bring you the pc and you could show me this stuff for an hour or so on a weekend :D

[whetu]

Originally posted by farns
So far all I have ever done to a computer to date is installed more ram and new vidcard so I dont know much.
we all start somewhere

Do I just unplug the cpu fan from the mobo and lift out the cpu+hsf+fan all in one?
As far as I can see theres nothing retaining it but it wont come out , just wanna check before I really try and pull hard lol :D
Look on top of the slot package. There should be a couple of tabs on either side that you have to move out of a lock position before you can remove the cpu. Otherwise you'll find yourself either breaking the locking mechanism, or just tearing the whole retention mechanism off the motherboard
My mobo says it has auto-detect voltage so hopefully the drop from 2V to 1.75V wont be a problem, dunno if it supports that low though.
with fingers crossed. Otherwise a decent slocket should be able to manually set that voltage, and you may even need to go so far as voltage modding your mobo. I havent kept up with the BX scene so I dunno off hand...
everything seemed fine in windows but my "primary IDE controller" had an error.
All I did was set the SW1 dip switches to 112 fsb as per the manual. I dont know if I should have changed anything else when doing an overclock.

It looks like my 5400 rpm 8mb quantum fireball HD
http://www.hwupgrade.com/hd/quantum_cr8400/
doesnt like OCing at all but I wanna replace it anyway.
as you overclock your fsb, your pci and agp buses also come out of spec (eg you overclock pci and agp as well) unfortunately, most IDE controllers just piggyback the pci bus so by overclocking the fsb, you also bring the IDE controllers out of spec.

Also quantum suck, and i think you mean GB not MB ;) First thing you should do is get a Maxtor or Seagate 7200rpm model HDD because I wouldnt even trust a quantum with something i can afford to lose, like my mp3 collection

[Glycerine]

Originally posted by whetu

Also quantum suck, and i think you mean GB not MB ;) First thing you should do is get a Maxtor or Seagate 7200rpm model HDD because I wouldnt even trust a quantum with something i can afford to lose, like my mp3 collection [/B]

wat he sed... i have a 40Gb Maxtor for my Primary Drive and a 30GB ibm for my MP3s.. dont get a GPX model IBM thou... think they where the dodgy ones??

and dont forget to partition you NEW HDD :D

[Humantuckshop]

Originally posted by Glycerine


wat he sed... i have a 40Gb Maxtor for my Primary Drive and a 30GB ibm for my MP3s.. dont get a GPX model IBM thou... think they where the dodgy ones??



GXP not GPX - yes, they are crap for OC'ing about 155MHz FSB is all you'll get with those babies. Unless you have a 1/5 PCI divider of course. But if you aren't OC'ing then these drives are a damn good choice IMHO. I have two of them - no issues so far, apart from the crap overclocking thing......

[farns]

I heard all sorts of bad things about the IBM 75GXPs, hit and miss by the sounds, even tho they are fast, yep Id get Seagate(cheap and the quietest) or Maxtor (still quiet and a little faster), why should I partition unless I'm running more than 1 OS?
Er I think this thread should be moved to "general help" as its getting off topic already lol

[Humantuckshop]

Originally posted by farns
why should I partition unless I'm running more than 1 OS?




Well, you would want at least two partitions on a single hard drive. One for the OS, and one for downloaded programs, files, mp3's, etc. Imagine if you only had one partition and windows fuxored up majorly. You would have to reformat and you would lose everything.

[farns]

Ok Thanks Humantuckshop, seems logical heh, I dont have any partitions and havent sussed out how to format or reinstall windows yet so after 3 years things are getting a bit flaky heh tho I only have to reboot every 2 days or so to speed things up a little, nothing major, bah reinstalling is overrated ;)

[farns]

Ok I got the cpu out fine now sorry to waste your time but motherboard stuff is all weird, its like theres no room and if u make a wrong move u wipe out 50 million capacitors or something and all the retaining mechanisms are weird.
Anyway a bit of wire under each tab and it came out ok, the slocket + celly wouldnt post though :(

[Maverick]

Farns:

What slocket are you using? You may very well need one that has voltage jumpers (these are the best ones for overclocking anyway). Gigabyte made one, so did ASUS, ABIT, and IWILL, and MSI -all were decent slockets AFAIK, particularly the later versions.

Also, make sure you upgrade to the latest BIOS. Do this with your P3 450 at default settings. Then once you have flashed it (in DOS mode). Unplug your computer from the wall. Clear CMOS (even take the battery out for 1 minute, then reboot, and go into BIOS and set everything to defaults.

Then try the Celeron 1GHz. First at 66MHz FSB, then bump it up to 100MHz, then try o/cing to get as much juice as you can.

hope that helps. It should work!

GL,

MLT

[Maverick]

further to the above:

BIOS info (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/support/intel440bx.htm#link6bxc)

You can see they support the Celeron533A to 700 -these were Coppermine Celerons that ran at 66MHz FSB. Therefore with this BIOS you can recognise CuMine Celerons up to a multiplier of 10.5.
The CuMine 1GHz has a multiplier of 10, therefore it should recognise it.

Thus the question now is the quality of your slocket or whether you have upgraded to this BIOS (try the later first).

MLT

[farns]

I havent upgraded BIOS yet, I am just figuring out how to do that now to make sure I dont kill something,I should have done it b4 trying the new cpu you're right of course, but I thought it would at least POST and just recognise it as a slower cpu or something, just wanted to see if the slocket worked.

As for the slocket itself, it was given to me for free ,he doesnt know anything about it, it says "for pentium2" on it and has no adjustable switches(jumpers?) or anything.
Because the cartridge is stuck to the old p3 cpu with plastic pins, the slocket just kind of wobbles around in the slot which is the only thing holding it.
I might pay $20 for a newer one that will have documentation and hopefully some sort of spacers so it will fit the retaining mechanism on each side and not just be held precariously at the base. It doesnt have any holes or notches to hook zipties or whatever to.

Before doing that however I have a few questions for your goodselves to check teh slocket is fully compatible.

Im sorry but I cant see if my GA-6BXC mobo http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/ga6bxc.htm supports the lower 1.75V of the Cu-mine celeron.
My p3 runs at 2.0V I think.
It says auto-voltage detect in that url but cant see it saying in what range. Im sorry to be such a noob but would anyone be able to help?

Also my motherboard will only support 112fsb and 133 fsb overclocks so
A: What are the chances of a 1gig coppermine celeron getting 133 fsb stable ( I heard from yous they topped out round 1.2ghz) and
B: If the above doesnt work do you know of any slockets that support 112fsb? Most seem to only support 66/100/133. Maybe an ASUS one or something has lots of incremental adjustments like their mobos...

Does the 10.5 multiplier limit in the latest BIOS mean I can overclock it past its stock 100fsb? I sort of get the basic idea of fsb but not the multiplier.

Wether I get a whole new box basically depends on wether a slocket is compatible or not lol ;)

[Humantuckshop]

It's highly unlikely your 1GHz Coppermine Celery will get to 133MHz FSB...... However an 850MHz or 900MHz Coppermine Celery would. And would probably go higher.

I don't know arse all about slockets to be honest - when it ever got to that stage for me, I just bought a new mobo. :D

[Maverick]

Originally posted by farns
I havent upgraded BIOS yet, I am just figuring out how to do that now to make sure I dont kill something,I should have done it b4 trying the new cpu you're right of course, but I thought it would at least POST and just recognise it as a slower cpu or something, just wanted to see if the slocket worked.

You should update the BIOS first. I had an LX chipset motherboard (prior chipset to the BX) that died after I had already upgraded the CPU to a Celeron 333. The replacement LX motherboard I got could support the Celeron333 but the BIOS was the one that it shipped with prior to the Celerons being invented. As a result I could not post -the system didnt recognise the newer CPU microcode. After a nifty BIOS update using beeps from the motherboard (Intels have a cool feature for recovering a BIOS failure), I rebooted fine with the Celeron333 recognised.

All it took was a BIOS update. This should be the first thing you do. You will have to do it with a CPU that the boards BIOS currently recognises (your P3 450).



As for the slocket itself, it was given to me for free ,he doesnt know anything about it, it says "for pentium2" on it and has no adjustable switches(jumpers?) or anything.

Sounds a cheapy -but for the price whose complaining if it works? And if it doesnt just buy a new one. Pentium 2's didnt come out in Socket370 form, so in the very least it should support the original Celerons. However, the early slockets did not support the later CuMine processors (different voltage and SSE instructions added).
So you may find you will have to get a later revision slocket to work.


Because the cartridge is stuck to the old p3 cpu with plastic pins, the slocket just kind of wobbles around in the slot which is the only thing holding it.
I might pay $20 for a newer one that will have documentation and hopefully some sort of spacers so it will fit the retaining mechanism on each side and not just be held precariously at the base. It doesnt have any holes or notches to hook zipties or whatever to..

If you get yourself a new slocket, try and get a retention mechanism as well from the retailer -he may have some floating around out the back and not mind. Failing that try second hand computer parts sellers such as the Computer Broker in CHCH.


Before doing that however I have a few questions for your goodselves to check teh slocket is fully compatible.

Im sorry but I cant see if my GA-6BXC mobo http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/ga6bxc.htm supports the lower 1.75V of the Cu-mine celeron.
My p3 runs at 2.0V I think.
It says auto-voltage detect in that url but cant see it saying in what range. Im sorry to be such a noob but would anyone be able to help?

A slocket with voltage jumpers would eliminate the need to rely on your motherboard to autodetect the voltage, however by updating to the newer BIOS you should be OK for the lower voltages (the BIOS update readme says it supports CuMine Celerons (533a to 700), so no worries.


Also my motherboard will only support 112fsb and 133 fsb overclocks so
A: What are the chances of a 1gig coppermine celeron getting 133 fsb stable ( I heard from yous they topped out round 1.2ghz) and

It all depends on your CPU. I believe "N" (a member of this forum) had a celeron2 that went all the way to 1.3GHz. This would be near the top end of what is possible though.

Another method that might be possible is to get hold of an old program (no longer supported by the programmer H-Oda!) called "SoftFSB". It can talk directly to your BIOS clock chip and tell it to provide an FSB that is not normally supported. I did this with my old Intel LX chipset motherboard (Intels have NO overl****ing options as a rule), to crank the FSB to 80MHz. You need a file specific to your particular BIOS chip for the program to interact with it, but its worth getting hold of the program and giving it a go.


B: If the above doesnt work do you know of any slockets that support 112fsb? Most seem to only support 66/100/133. Maybe an ASUS one or something has lots of incremental adjustments like their mobos...

FSB will be controlled by the motherboard then. Setting a slocket to 133FSB if your board doesnt support it isnt going to mean you can get to 133MHz FSB. The jumpers on most slockets are for voltage off memory.


Does the 10.5 multiplier limit in the latest BIOS mean I can overclock it past its stock 100fsb? I sort of get the basic idea of fsb but not the multiplier.

multipliers on intel CPU's are locked (you cant change them, no ifs or buts (unlike AMD cpus)), this means the ONLY way to overclock is by upping the FSB.

What the 10.5x multiplier allows for is the BIOS to recognise that a CPU can have a multiplier of up to 10.5 -so it can support a Celeron 700 (10.5x66Mhz FSB) -or a Celeron 700 overclocked to 1050 (10.5x100MHz FSB) or a Celeron 700 o/c to 1.4GHz (10.5x133) etc -not that a C700 would make it to 1.4GHz but you get the point?

What it also means is that a Celeron 766 with a multiplier of 11.5 will possibly NOT be recognised by the BIOS (it may, but the BIOS file doesnt say so).


Wether I get a whole new box basically depends on wether a slocket is compatible or not lol ;)

Another cheap option would be to buy the ABIT BE6-2 that is for sale in these forums. It supports FSB in 1MHz increments and is a legendary overclocking motherboard:)

Good Luck

MLT

[whetu]

*applauds* :D

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by whetu
*applauds* :D
LOL. reckon :D

look out KJ!

[Maverick]

Originally posted by mird-OC

LOL. reckon :D

look out KJ!

sheesh steady on. I'm just here to help -not to plague the forum pretending to be a know-it-all;)

[RockBoy]

Unlike KJ mav wont say much
but when he does ....... buy god you better listen :D

(you never know you might learn something ;))

RB

[farns]

You guys are all leges aye every man and woman jack of yous, very helpful to morons like me, I am tempted to give $100 to the forum for its upkeep and improvement and all your time but I dont think it would work cos Hans is the only one that has a professional interest in it but he is just one of many mods , the others of who are amateur and would all spend it on piss no doubt :D
I would like to clap each and every one of heartily on the back in a manly way and to pump your hands most vigourously for your kind and noble assistance.

[whetu]

Originally posted by farns
cos Hans is the only one that has a professional interest in it but he is just one of many mods , the others of who are amateur and would all spend it on piss no doubt :D

weeeeeellll then
*cracks knuckles*
- Professional Meat Retail Assistant/Apprentice
which of course brings on sub professions of the meat industry
-Professional Pervert
-Professional Boozehound

plus i spend and have spent more time on these forums than the other mods, have put my reputation on the line protecting the best interests of the OCNZ community on several occasions, have done the same to defend the OCNZ mod team on at least one occasion that i'll let them know of, and i'm completely bonkers.

so in summary, an amateur is not me ;) but yeah, you are right.. i'd prolly spend it on piss.. i mean thats nearly a keg ;):p

[farns]

I just tried to flash BIOS now according to the link KJ (I think) posted http://www.athlonmb.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=30624

"You will need a total of 2 items to flash your BIOS:
1. A clean floppy with the AFLASH.exe program and the UNZIPPED BIOS file on it.
2. A windows emergency start disk OR The Windows ME installation floppy. Either will work.

If you do not have an emergency start disk, you can make one with a blank formatted floppy. Go to the control panel in windows and select "Add and Remove Programs". When the window appears, select the tab at the top that will allow you to make a startup disk. Simply follow the instructions.

This disk will serve to clean boot you into a DOS prompt.

Make sure you unzip the BIOS file from its download zip format.

Next, with a second formatted floppy, copy the program AFLASH.exe and the UNZIPPED BIOS file (1005c.awd) onto the floppy and keep this floppy as your BIOS floppy in future flashes. "

1: Above is from an Asus site and I have a large protrusion on my mobo labelled "Award" which I take it is the BIOS flash thing. So what prog do I substitute for AFLASH.exe?
I have a gigabyte mobo.
2: I dont have the win98 discs and when I try to make an emergency start floppy it asks for them, which file in windows do I direct it to instead?

[whetu]

1: Above is from an Asus site and I have a large protrusion on my mobo labelled "Award" which I take it is the BIOS flash thing. So what prog do I substitute for AFLASH.exe?
I have a gigabyte mobo.
2: I dont have the win98 discs and when I try to make an emergency start floppy it asks for them, which file in windows do I direct it to instead?

1) the large protrusion is your bios chip. A bios flash is the process taken to update the bios. just so you know ;)
2) hmmm not too sure about this one, but if all else fails, and all you really need is a boot disc that will get you into dos, you could try one of the following:

have your files extracted into a folder, say c:/flash, then "restart into dos mode", navigate to that folder, eg c: <enter>, cd flash <enter>, *.exe <enter> <-- where * is whatever the flash utility is called.

OR

www.bootdisk.com
which leads to this (http://www.topqualityfreeware.com/~jchojnacki/disks/wboot98se.exe)

download that, put in a (preferably) blank floppy and run it. It will make you a bootable disc.

then follow this guide from Gigabyte (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/support/procedure1.htm)

good luck :D

[mird-OC]

yeah i'd do what whetu suggests and just restart in msdos mode. i really don't trust floppy disks.

[farns]

I updated the BIOS ok but the cpu+slocket still wont post, just the psu and cpu fan power up so maybe the cpu is dead?
Im going to try a new slocket in case it being old and dead was the problem.
Otherwise Its upgrade time whohoo :)

When I updated the BIOS however, it said "error detected" or something when in the BIOS flash prog but I proceeded anyway and the new BIOS is registered fine in the POST screen so maybe its fine.

[farns]

Thanx for link to Gigabyte support, I went to that site b4 but obv didnt look very hard , I normally try and suss stuff out good b4 asking :)
I bookmarked www.bootdisk.com too, useful looking site

[Maverick]

sounds like it probably is the slocket.

I would pack myself if i saw "error" come up when flashing the BIOS!!!
Tell me, does your gigabyte board have the "dual BIOS" feature. If you do then you may not have updated the BIOS at all -the dual BIOS may have kicked in and prevented the BIOS error from screwing your board.
What version does it say during the POST?

if its the old version still. Try downloading the BIOS file again (it could have been corrupted) and try flashing again.

Dont give up!!! :)

[farns]

Well it was either proceed and possibly kill an ancient slot 1 mobo that wasnt worth much anyway(isnt that what dies when ur BIOS flash fails?.. well the BIOS chip specifically) or back to square 1 as I saw it.
The floppy had some bad sectors which showed up when I formatted it so maybe it was that although all BIOS and emergency boot files were present on it.
The BIOS shows in POST as F4C which is the latest from http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/ga6bxc.htm but
it doesnt say anything there or in my manual about "dual BIOS".

Im hoping the fact that the system doesnt boot with the new cpu is a dead slocket and not a dead cpu as you were pretty sure a 1gig Coppermine celeron was fine with the latest BIOS, find out when the new slocket arrives...

[farns]

Right I finally got my replacement slotket for the dodgy and ancient looking one. Its just as before though, the psu comes on but nothing appears on the monitor.

My mobo http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/ga6bxc.htm

My old cpu was a p3 450 Katmai which ran stock @ 100fsb and 2.0 V

My replacement is a celly 1.0 gig coppermine which also runs stock @ 100 fsb and runs on only 1.75V

I set the SW1 dip switches to 100fsb so no probs there
I left the SW2 dip switches(clock ratio) at X4.5 which was the default for my p3 450. The highest setting showed in the manual was only X6.5, I tried all permutations of the SW2 dips and it was still dead.

The slotket is an Asus S370-L and I could find no useful stuff about it on the net.
All it has is a sticker on the back for setting its jumpers to cpu voltage.
The range is 1.8 - 2.6 and "cpu default". I moved the jumpers to both default and 1.8 which is nearest to the 1.75V the cpu uses at stock speed.

As far as I can see the only probs could be:

1: The voltage jumpers dont go to 1.75V( doubt thats the problem)

2: When I took the fiddly lil jumpers off I may have put them the wrong way round, even tho they fit on pins perfect.

3: The SW2 dip switches dont allow for a 1gig cpu

4: The cpu is dead


Maybe that URL will help if anyone has used slotkets before, it has the BIOS (Maverick said a 1gig coppermine was fine even tho the latest BIOS doesnt say so) and manual so u can see what I mean about SW1 and SW2 dip switches.

I switched it off at the wall (the power button on the case didnt work) each time I changed a jumper or a dip switch but I didnt clear CMOS or anything erm dunno if thats relevant)

Thanks for any help!

[farns]

This is what someone at SharkeyExtreme said to my Q

"That board will not run that processor, at least according to the specs. The latest BIOS release posted will support up to 700 MHz. Currently the maximum FSB on the board is 100 and the processor multiplier cannot exceed 6.5 which will give you a 650MHz processor. The latest BIOS upgrade changes the maximum multiplier setting from 6.5 to 7.0 which accommodates a 700 MHz processor (FSB X Multiplier). A 1 Gig processor would require a multiplier setting of 10 which the board obviously does not support and since it does not have the auto detect function of the newer boards it can only be manually set to a maximun of 7.0 with a BIOS upgrade.
A new motherboard would be required to use that processor."

That was #3 on my possible causes but Maverick was pretty sure it would run a 1gig coppermine, perhaps my mobo just doesnt have enough dip settings to get a 10X multiplier?

[Maverick]

read the specs to your board.

"clock multiplier up to 9.5". That in the least says the guy on sharkys extreme is full of sh1t

2ndly go to the BIOS update webpage. Latest BIOS adds support for Celeron 700. This CPU has a multiplier of 10.5.

The Celeron 1GHz only has a multiplier of 10. Thus your CPU "should" work.

-Mav

[farns]

Yep you are right sorry to doubt you after all your help :)
Damn, well I guess that only leaves a dead cpu..seems unlikely tho
Well Ive gone and spent $100 at trademe on a fc-pga mobo now which was a bit silly but hopefully things'll work out

[farns]

Mav,
the SW2(clock ratio) dip settings shown in the manual only go up to 6.5 though and I dont think its physically possible for 4 dip switches for there to be enough different settings to get 9.5.
Even tho it says there is a 9.5 multiplier in the spec URL.

Are you able to shed any more light? :P

[Maverick]

There will be other combinations that were not printed in the manual (as these chips were not envisaged at the time).

Try this (cant hurt):

1. Write out all the possible dip switch combinations.
2. put next to the known ones the clock multipliers you have info on.
3. try all the others:)

You could also try the old "email gigabyte support". Ask for the dip switch combos up to 10.5. These may be in an updated version of the Manual. Try and see if there is a newer version of the manual available on PDF from the gigabyte website.

Also try the gigabyte mainboard newsgroup. Post a clear question stating exactly what you want (to get a Celeron 1GHz CuMine CPU working in that model motherboard, with that model slocket, with that latest BIOS).

-Before that try the newsgroup search engine on www.google.com

(someone else may have asked that very question -or similar!)

Thats some of the things I would try anyway:)

Start with the CPU running at 66MHz FSB. When you have the CPU working for sure, then up it to 100MHz. Then try overclocking.

Like I said. Dont give up yet!

Mav

EDIT: Just read a previous post of your I missed. It seems you think you have tried all the possible permutations of the dip switches. Try the google search and post a question on the mainboard forum. See what they come up with.