Wireless LAN in chch?

[TB_]

Just wondering how many people would be interested in joining a wireless network in christchurch.

There are several wireless technologies at the moment, one is already being used in chch. (http://www.yobbo.co.nz)

There is Wireless B which is the most common and already has nodes and repeaters in chch, but has a limit of 11mbps. Then there is Wireless-A and G. A and G both offer speeds upto 54mbps and some cards offer upto 72-108mbps through custom addons. Wireless G is more expensive than B however.

The cost of setting up a node using Wireless B would be around about 400-500NZD.

Okay, now you got a little bit of info, anyone interested?

[extremerigman]

websites? is the node receiving the connection? interested.....45%.

[swiftynz]

definately interested :)

but i think i have a bit of reading to do first...

which network are you referring to? the one in the link you mentioned?

[TB_]

Im not quite sure bout the nodes and what not but ii'd imagine a node is the recienving end and he repeater is the repeater for disting the signal.

Ive posted a URL in my original topic which has some info bout the current network. And it is the current network I mentioned. I personaly wouldnt mind seeing a newer network done with the faster tech, but Im not sure bout the price of the final G based cards yet. Even so, a B network would probably be fast enough.

[Wibber]

isint the range sh1t on g?
and b is hell expensive

[TB_]

Bs are cheap. 229 for a card here. As for G I dont know, I havent seen anything using it yet.

[Gh0s7 L3mUr]

Yeah I'm keen on it. Grass roots internet, again.
Would be nice to get a large OCNZ base involved with the project.

[TB_]

Yeah. If we could get say 10 people who plan to join or start their own network itd pay off. But it requires us to recruit more people, and research if its all feasable based on where we all live and the prices of the equipment needed.

[Geek4Life]

I'd be very interested in joining in.

[Wibber]

oops i was confusing a and b, b cards are $120ish and a are $$$
I havet two interested votes

[swiftynz]

hang on, are you talking about starting another wireless wan? what's wrong with joining the existing one? i'd be interested in joining but if the cost passes $200 it wouldn't be worthwhile from my point of view.

11mbps will be fine, i was stuck on 10mb for the whole of last year :p (uni lan). anything faster will be too expensive imho.

[TooMuchCoffeeMan]

The cool thing about some of the consumer level wireless equipment is that some components can be "overclocked" to extend the range etc by using higher performance antennae (as long as there is line of sight) in place of the standard stubby aerials.

fun fun fun.

[TB_]

Although a new network could be started, would be better to join the existing one. As for the price, depends on the range you need. 229NZD for the network card, and upto say 200NZD or so for a high gain antenna. Even 2mbps is worth it when you think about it.

If the OCNZ people who join the network have a good experience it may lead the way for even more people to join, and perhaps start a much bigger network. I wouldnt mind seeing 10-20 OCNZ guys on the network. Price and location is important tho at this point, but if we get enough parts maybe able to eb bought in bulk.

[MR_60]

You can build a high-gain antenna from a coffee can and a connector... better than some expensive high gain antenna and cost about $30 (including the coffee!)

but can I remember where I saw this? nope but I'm sure you could google it if you were interested...

[k14]

Yeah i would be interested, but would not really want to spend more than ~ $300.

Will it just be a network for gaming/leeching? or will it have an internet connection aswell??

[Wibber]

pringels an works good too, cards are only $120ish have a look on pricespy

here are the exploits of resarch I ddi earlier , when i dicovered yobbo. unfortunately the node is too far from my house...

[Tiggerz]

I've thought about it since I am saving up to wireless me flat.. Waiting for some new Intel tech to come out in a bit for that.. Will probably be going g+ (72/22Mb/s) tho.

Currently am using GPRS for my wireless connection and will be continuing to do so, much better coverage..

I can't really see what a wireless node would offer me that I dont allready have with my current setup.

[Geek4Life]

The main benefit is a highish speed link to other people with no traffic charges.

And no cables :D

[sparkles]

i am NOT a networking / engineering expert. this is from the info that i've read / been told etc. if you can't be a$$ed reading all this, there is a summary at the bottom!


ok, i have just very kindly had a demo from matt at yobbo (http://www.yobbo.co.nz) on their network here in chch, and it certainly looks to be very promising.

what can you do with it?
well, at the moment, file sharing is all go... as long as there are people online at the same time. game servers can be set up as per normal, all faster than your pos dial-up / capped dsl connection. apparently a group here in chch run a whole series of game servers (mostly cs i gather, but a start...) which are conncected to this network. at the moment there is no internet access through the network, but people are thinking of adding a modem at one end to allow basic email access etc. remember that it would be one single modem, and as such a little anti-social to hog it downloading stuff which could be done on either your own account, or off another person on the network. or unless someone was keen to lend the people a real fast pipe to the net. *inconspicuuosly looks at binky*

wireless standards
now, amongst all the wireless standards out there, these guys use 802.11b. the '802.11a' variety is out because it uses restricted radio frequencies (forget which range), has a small range, and costs lots. '802.11b' doesn't cost much, runs on a lower frequency (2.4GHz) which means that it has a longer range. '802.11g' is not yet a standard, and apparently isn't expected to be able to handle the geographical range that we're talking about here. it offers quite high speeds (about the same as 802.11a), but, well, i'd rather not be the first person to try and get two standards working together!

aerial
now, the range of 802.11b is not that huge that it will work over all of chch, and so this network involves aerials. large external types. it has to be pointed in the direction of the cashmere hills, so existing tv ones won't work (they *should* be pointed at sugarloaf!). now, these would normally be fixed onto your roof or such, as it is very much a line of sight connection.

now, depending on where you are situated, will depend on how grunty an aerial you will require. there are two listed on their website (http://www.yobbo.co.nz/Antennas.htm). the larger one (which was what we used here) goes for $285.00, the less powerful one goes for $185.00. reception makes quite a significant impact on transfer speeds; playing around with the direction the aerial was pointing saw connection speeds change from 0-400Kb+.

hardware
to do this, you'll need a wireless network adaptor. wireless networks were concieved for laptops, and as such there are many more around for them *sigh*. you can get pci adaptors which give you a pcmcia (laptop) card slot though.

the cheapest cards go for about $120ish (cheers wibber), but unfortunately this is one component you can't really skimp on. look very closely at the power output rating on any prospective card, the higher the power output the better. i haven't looked around at too many, but a good example of differences is here (http://www.yobbo.co.nz/Cards.htm); the top card has a rating of 63mW, where as the one below it is rated at 200mW. i'm sure i speak for us all when i say [tool man]MORE POWER![/tool man]. more downloads too :D

software
i've got all the bits, now how does it all fit in together?
well, they have a series of servers running on a machine(s) up in cashmere, including a dhcp one (as well as a dc hub w00t). this means that if you have a relatively new os, you can simply plug it in, and you're away.

there are a number of ftp servers run by other people on this network, which allow you to download all manner of things... as well as this, it is a normal tcp/ip network which means that plain old ordinary windows file sharing works (look out all those who set their printers to 'share'!).

now of course the difficulty comes in where peoples have existing networks at home. you can use normal internet connection sharing servers/programs. however, if you already have a gateway to the internet then i can see this as being a little bit tricky. apparently it can, and has, been done. has anyone here had any experience with a computer on two networks at the same time? from what i gather, the easiest way to get around this is to use a wireless access point (and i'm pretty sure that you can get ethernet ones to plug into a switch/hub). adding the aerial can be a little more fun (http://www.yobbo.co.nz/DIY.htm), but i don't think that will stop anyone here!


summary:
to get hooked up, you'll need:
*software : drivers included with hardware, all other is free as far as i can tell

* aerial : about $185 - $285

* cabling : normal coax (apparently about $5/m, but it could be worth examing a few other sources)

* adaptor from wireless card / access point and aerial :

AND:

* wireless access point (about $300 at ascent (http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-template.asp?cname=Wireless).

OR:

* wireless card (matt recommended the second one down on this (http://www.yobbo.co.nz/Cards.htm) page. it's a pcmcia card, but apparently gives better performace than pci cards... weird, i know.
* if you have a desktop pc, then you'll also need a pci -> pc card adaptor

an estimated price for these two components was about $300, probably less if we were able to make up a bulk order. matt was quite helpful, and was quite keen on getting as many people onto this network as possible. along with his business partner, they will normally offer assistance in setting it all up, and can give a quick demo at your house (he has a laptop with it all setup on).

hopefully that braindump covers most of it.... :p

[cadmax]

well i called yobbo last year and talked to him, he said that i was off the map then he gave up on me :(
i was going to pay the cost for it (the repeters(sp?) and stuff)
but he did not want to know :(
so i would be keen if i could get 128K + inter net on it 2 (i would pay setup cost)

[mird-OC]

sweet.. looks like the yobbo coverage area is somewhat more extensive that what i was last time i checked. i'll see if i can get hooked up next week and let you guys know how i go.

[S.T.U.]

my mate is on yobbos network... i server is up the port hills and my mate live jsut behind jade stadium... just to give you guys an idea of the speed he gets about 250kbs downstream and 130 upstream..... last i heard one guy was going to hook up a 2mb internet connection to it, but i don't think thats been done yet.

[sparkles]

cadmax: i don't think that the repeaters are particularly cheap, but i'm not entirely sure... i guess it's worth looking into- what area are you in?

and i am also right next to jade stadium, and we got some pretty good connection speeds earlier (up to about 400k).

as for an internet connection, no-one wants to pay for everyone else's internet, so i can't see that happening. that's why i was particularly interested in seeing how easily you could be connected to both this network as well as an internet connection.

[Wibber]

in my case I have a dsl router, id set my default gateway to my server (which would have the wnic in it), and setup routing on the server, the if the packet is destined for the net it goes to the server and get fowarded out to the router, if not it goes out the wnic

[extremerigman]

damn there is no coverage for the halswell area.:(

[sparkles]

Originally posted by Wibber
in my case I have a dsl router, id set my default gateway to my server (which would have the wnic in it), and setup routing on the server, the if the packet is destined for the net it goes to the server and get fowarded out to the router, if not it goes out the wnic

so in other words, you'd use your server as a router?

[Wibber]

yip, but i'd be temped to pick up a cisco 1600 series off trademe, just for style value :D

[cadmax]

Originally posted by sparkles
cadmax: i don't think that the repeaters are particularly cheap, but i'm not entirely sure... i guess it's worth looking into- what area are you in?

and i am also right next to jade stadium, and we got some pretty good connection speeds earlier (up to about 400k).

as for an internet connection, no-one wants to pay for everyone else's internet, so i can't see that happening. that's why i was particularly interested in seeing how easily you could be connected to both this network as well as an internet connection.

Gebbies Valley ;)
i was looking @ 2-3 epeaters
@ $500-900 per unit (thats way i would like to get internet by it too :p )
i cant get adsl (well telecom is say i will in 2008 or when i get 150 with in 5km of there box)
so say $3500 all up :) + or - a bit

[extremerigman]

Originally posted by cadmax
Gebbies Valley ;)


Whoaaa! You live in the middle of no where!

[Wibber]

jeese bro move into town

[cadmax]

But I get good pay out here :P
+ Free travel
but i dont get time off to go to LANs :(
well every gob has it's down side ;)
my one is just this job is not PC friendly :P

i dont get ADSL, only 56K + no LANS :(
i want new job :P

[thabass]

it looks like i need repeater in riccarton, then hornby to reach me in my new pad rolleston.

bugger.. or well at least i can get adsl.. One of the condition of sale and purchase aggrement :)

The anyone on riccarton/hornby area?

[Smudge]

$144.00+GST PCI Netgear MA311, Wireless Ethernet adapter, 11Mbps
$131.00+GST USB Netgear MA101, Wireless Ethernet adapter, 11Mbps
$182.00+GST PCI DLink DWL-520+ 22Mbps

access points were $400up last i checked (was from ascent though)


now i just need $400 to set it all up & then i can share ~440Gb so donations welcome

[sparkles]

vizious: check the power output of those devices:

MA311 : ? (not specified)
MA101 : 13dBm
DWL-520: 15dBm

all are quite a long way below the roughly 200dBm of the one from yobbo... i'm not trying to pimp their gear in particular, but i don't want to see ya get one that doesn't have the power needed....

make sure you check the spec sheets!

[Wibber]

it not so much a problem having a low output card, just if the cost of low output card + amp is more then high output card.....

edit: its 200mw not 200dbm, its only 23dbm

[sparkles]

ahh, you would be quite correct there wibber...

either way, to get reception around chch rather than just the backyard, i gather that you need both a powerful receiver as well as aerial...

[mird-OC]

anyone interested in constructing their own antenna, give this page a read:

http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html

go the big chunk beef stew! :D

[Sh33p_Sh1t]

Im based in Invercargill and a while ago i did some reasearch on 802.11b but so far havnt produced much due to lack of $$$$ but did build one of the Pringles Can antennas i havnt found out what it works like yet because its still away being tested n Timaru. This is the design i went with and it wasnt too hard but some of the parts were hard to find. If you have trouble finding some of the parts i might be able to get some for you guys :)

http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448

[NZSnake]

say aah guys, how much would it cost to get equiptment so i could get coverage in say ....aah rangiora :( well actually out of rangiora/kaiapoi... tuahiwi :( :( , just one more question, why dont yobbo score a deal like walkerwireless have with vodafone to use the vodafone cell towers as PoP's?

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by NZSnake
why dont yobbo score a deal like walkerwireless have with vodafone to use the vodafone cell towers as PoP's?
well that might have something to do with the fact that walker wireless costs AT LEAST $150 A MONTH, and the service yobbo is providing is 100% free. seriously man, use that gray matter between your ears :p

[NZSnake]

i wasnt meaning like that i was meaning why dont u ask them if you can slap repeters on there towers?

[cadmax]

Originally posted by NZSnake
i wasnt meaning like that i was meaning why dont u ask them if you can slap repeters on there towers?
doing that would cost $$,$$$ +
it would cost

[NZSnake]

thought so, you could always climb up and hide them in the tower somehow so they couldnt find them :)

[cadmax]

Originally posted by NZSnake
thought so, you could always climb up and hide them in the tower somehow so they couldnt find them :)

i'm in the same place as you
if i was to get it i would have to put in 2-4 repters(sp?)
so i go to L3 ;)
i have the $$$$ to put it all in but if i cant get net on it then it's no point doing it!
all i want is 128K internet :(
oh well 2008 is comeing (that will be the day :) )

[NZSnake]

Originally posted by cadmax
i'm in the same place as you

you live in the same middle of nowhere as i do?
prehaps you heard me yell obsenities when i fried 3 CPU's in 3 days a few weeks back?:(

[cadmax]

Originally posted by NZSnake
you live in the same middle of nowhere as i do?
prehaps you heard me yell obsenities when i fried 3 CPU's in 3 days a few weeks back?:(
no i did not :(
well i like OC in the middle of nowhere ;)
i will have to see you when i'm up there next
there are not a lot of OC in the middle of nowhere :p :o

[NZSnake]

sounds like a plan

[ktulu]

Originally posted by NZSnake
thought so, you could always climb up and hide them in the tower somehow so they couldnt find them :)

Climbing one of those towers will leave you sterile in the bast case senario (not that you should be breeding anyway)...

[DR Grim]

im a newb to all this wireless lan stuff, i was wondering how much would i cost to connect all up in somerfeild (near cashmere) if some one were to help me install the stuff?
if someone could give me a ph number to talk to some that could do it would be great :) (ive got other questions but probally to long for a forum)

[Smudge]

any particular reason you cant buy a cheapassed wireless card & amplify the signal between it & the antenna?

[thabass]

I need a hop from riccarton to hornby and then to me in rolleston!!

Dam it.. i got the pcmcia card + AP (free from work) just need the external antenna.

Any one know how high you can put mast on a house before you need permission form council etc?

[FruitLooPs]

Well about a week ago me and a couple of friends got a coverage test done in the riccarton area, the map hasn't been updated. But the hills acess point aerials have been adjusted abit, and now cover the riccarton/avonhead area and maybe a tiny bit of russley.

My friend got a 26% connection and tried a quick speed test, dling from dc hub he got around 200kb/s :D He's in avonhead area.

I am also in avonhead, but behind a large amount of trees in a park (that can be fixed ;) ) Still I tried a coverage test, and found a small hole in the trees where i got a 20% connection so if only I had some $$ I would get it. :(

This was done from one of the guys on his laptop with a large, probably over 20db parabolic aerial. Didn't get a look at what wireless card he was using though.

Maybe you can get a free test aswell if you can get hold of him, my mate knows him from poly so thats how we got setup with a test. :)

[Oblivian]

Originally posted by FruitLooPs
I am also in avonhead, but behind a large amount of trees in a park (that can be fixed ;) ) Still I tried a coverage test, and found a small hole in the trees where i got a 20% connection so if only I had some $$ I would get it. :(

Me Toooo!! just infront of QEII, prob the same trees I cant see through. Got 15-100kb/sec when he tested at my place with the 25dB on pole about the height of the roof peak.

This was done from one of the guys on his laptop with a large, probably over 20db parabolic aerial. Didn't get a look at what wireless card he was using though.

Maybe you can get a free test aswell if you can get hold of him, my mate knows him from poly so thats how we got setup with a test. :)

Probably Matt from yobbo. My first email more or less went astray, so I bit the bullet. Got a 19dB antenna, stuck it on roof and got a gatway box setup. He came round that weekend after a phonecall with the external-antenna-only 'Senao' card (the 23dB ones listed) could login..just. So went to New Brighton carpark. 3MB connection no worries.

I possy my trees about Avonside girls. Large enough to be a few 100 years old. I could be off course and pick it as Porrit park *shrug* need GPS for a day.

BTW.. just got some cable and connectors sourced from Radcliffe electrical as an alternative. Thin/low loss (.4db/m) good for up to 10m. All I need is the card next bonus.

[thabass]

Originally posted by Oblivian
Me Toooo!! just infront of QEII, prob the same trees I cant see through. Got 15-100kb/sec when he tested at my place with the 25dB on pole about the height of the roof peak.

Not being a east coast kid... how far away from tower do you think you are?

What sort of anttena do you use? Directional eg pringles can type setup?

>BTW.. just got some cable and connectors sourced from Radcliffe >electrical as an alternative. Thin/low loss (.4db/m) good for up >to 10m. All I need is the card next bonus. [/B]

How much for the cable?

I want to make my own pringles can anntenna, not sure where to get the N-Female connectors..

Any ideaS?

[Oblivian]

Originally posted by thabass
How much for the cable?

I want to make my own pringles can anntenna, not sure where to get the N-Female connectors..

Any ideaS?
Yup. Radcliffs had them for $11+, Cable was 2.20+ methinks... but is only good for short distance. Bout 7mm total width.

They generally dont like selling to public but the way he was talking (making pre done pigtails and leads) about wireless its taking off. He was more than happy for me to direct more business their way.

I was going to go into cantenna, but the pissing round with probe to meet the wavelength put me off.

Oh, that and the fact I live about 15-20km from the AP here. Needed something to trust.

[WirelessWarLord]

Hi Guys

Matt here. There are a lot of questions about wireless.

I will cover a couple of things for you, but feel free to e-mail wireless@yobbo.co.nz for more indepth details for inderviduals.

You do not need the highest RF output card if you are within 5-8km of the Cashmere Hills. The further you go, the stronger RF signal you need to communicate to the Hill Repeater as the hill has the signal stregnth to get to you.

It really helps if you have a quality antenna. As you problery know, we recomend the largest, a 25dB Parabolic Dish, but you cna make your own, I can test it compared to other smaler antenna we have around.

We have interest in Kiapoi, Rangiora, Rollerston, Amberly, Springfield to Ashburton.

Please feel free to e-mail to show your surport. We may not get back to everyone, but that is due to lack of time, sorory to those in the past I have not replyed to. If you do not hear anything from me, just e-mail again asking when the F*#K we are going doing something in your area :)

We are just experimenting with diversity on the AP's on the Cashmere Hill. We hope to cover over Haswell area. :) Please inquire us for more details if this covers you.

Not sure if it will get to Rollerston, but you never know, I may have to come out and do a test for you guys out there sometime. Let me know if you are keen

Safe & happy wireless to all.

Matt
wireless@yobbo.co.nz

[varkk]

Wow you guys have really grown since I last checked you out...I might have to get a wireless card and antenna sorted sometime.