Has the GeForce FX been canned already?

[Deviant]

I have read this on more than one site. Either their new line is going really well, which is quite likely, or the FX is bad, which is also quite likely. Maybe this is true.

http://www.the-inquirer.com/?article=7615

[Testing]

hahahha

____________________

Looks like Nvidia saw Rancho's ATI R350 post and decided to can their GeForce FX, as the photochop looked better than there DustBuster....Hehe

NVIDIA UK HAS REFUSED to comment on a posting on a 3D bulletin board claiming that the GeForce FX is for the chop.According to the rumour, posted at x-3DFX, Nvidia is canning the GeForce FX and has told its foundry, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp (TSMC), to stop when 100,000 NV30 are produced. The same posting claimed that Nvidia will now concentrate on NV31, NV34, and NV35.

_____________________

the nv30s must suck ass :D

[_N_]

hmm, interesting, doesn't sound too good for nVidia,

[Testing]

apparently this could be a fake too... just been looking around and apparently this news was from some 3dfx forums :D

http://pub43.ezboard.com/fx3dfxfrm1.showMessage?topicID=13924.topic


but it has made to to most major news headlines :D

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7615

[Gh0s7 L3mUr]

Originally posted by Testing
apparently this could be a fake too... just been looking around and apparently this news was from some 3dfx forums :D

[

3dfx = nVidia

The FX is using 3dfx tech.

[mird-OC]

why the hell would they refuse to comment? they may aswell say "yeah it's all true!"...

[Sydog]

Isn't this the same thing that happened with the Geforce 256. Geforce 2 was released shortly after the 256

[Deviant]

Maybe there's nothing wrong with the FX. Too much BS out there which makes it hard to believe anything until products are actually released.

GeForce FX getting better.
http://www.the-inquirer.com/?article=7626

[TB_]

Theres nothing wrong with the FX. An crude hardware process and early drivers is not what i'd call broken. And nvidia isnt going to can an almost billion dollar project. Jesus guys, get a clue.

[Joshsti_NZ]

Oh well.

*wanders off to buy R9700 Pro*

Oh no! I don't have an AGP slot! or a computer worth adding stuff too! :rolleyes:

[Testing]

little bit of an update :D

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7658

[neoprint]

the enquirer is full of bs. everything i have read from there is bs. take this with a grain of salt, guys

[Agent666]

Originally posted by TB_
Theres nothing wrong with the FX. An crude hardware process and early drivers is not what i'd call broken. And nvidia isnt going to can an almost billion dollar project. Jesus guys, get a clue.

its just in my view nvidias only soln to ATI is an esculation to ever higher clocks+mem speeds hence the FX, but to me anyway it looks like ATI seem to be producing cards on a more intelligent design... ie less noise + less heat both of which the FX will have in abundance by all reports.
I guess you can look at it like the AMD vs intel thing... both achieve the same thing but they go about it in very different ways....

It might be a very smart thing in nvidias part to drop the FX ... but by jesus there next product had better be an ATI killer or they will find there market share rapidely going ATI's way.... esp since ATI will release there next line based on the R350 core soon which will be better than there 9700pro chipset... and still no reply from nvidia...

either way we are in for some killer proformance one way or another :) ... only have to get off my GF2 to see it :D

[Testing]

Update for u All

http://www.warp2search.net/article....order=0&thold=0

Kyle Bennet from [H]ardOCP reports that sources have told the [H] staff since Tuesday this week that only pre-ordered Ultra cards will be sold and shipped to customers. After that only non-ultra cards will be available. Guess Nvidia is going straight for NV35 reference design in fear of ATI's yet unannounced R350. Who ever would have thought that half a year ago. Here is Kyle's wording:
As we noted here earlier this week, the GeForceFX 5800 Ultra will never make it to retail. Those of you that PreBuy the cards will still get an Ultra model with the FX Flow cooling unit. Those who don't will have the opportunity to get the non-Ultra version (400/800) off the retail shelves for a price of US$300.00. This information is unconfirmed at this time, but has been what we have been told repeatedly by different sources since Tuesday of this week.

http://www.hardocp.com/index.html


hmm looks like no one here is getting a gf fx (nv30)

lol

[Grrr!!]

Those people who pre-ordered those GFfx Ultra's are going to be damn lucky. If only 100,000 or so are produced, then they are going to be valuable collectors items.

[Deviant]

Originally posted by TB_
Theres nothing wrong with the FX. An crude hardware process and early drivers is not what i'd call broken. And nvidia isnt going to can an almost billion dollar project. Jesus guys, get a clue.

Looks like they guy with all the nouse is wrong.

[casemodder]

I heard that the fans on it were louder than your cpu and case fans, Maybe an overheating problem?

[Maverick]

I hate to say it guys but I've seen it all before... 3dfx let its shipping dates slip and got trumped by nVidias Geforce -they were too busy playing catch up that they dropped prodution of V5 6000 to focus on Rampage.... which itself never happened.

ATi is the new king of 3D. Time to sell those shares in nVidia and buy ATi.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Maverick
I hate to say it guys but I've seen it all before... 3dfx let its shipping dates slip and got trumped by nVidias Geforce -they were too busy playing catch up that they dropped prodution of V5 6000 to focus on Rampage.... which itself never happened.

ATi is the new king of 3D. Time to sell those shares in nVidia and buy ATi.

ROFLMAO

Lol man - but did 3Dfx have a successfull motherboard chipset? Did 3Dfx have a successfull gaming console? ( XBox chipset pricing issue has been resolved ) Did 3Dfx have large military contracts for display drivers in military vehicles?

Bad analogy.

[Grrr!!]

If you ask me ... nVidia's future is in budget video and high-end sound, as well as all the things KJ mentioned.

[KingJackal]

GeForceFX Paper Lauch Review (http://www.darkcrow.co.kr/Preview/Preview_Content.asp?board_idx=98)

BWAHAHAHAHHAAAA....
:D

[whetu]

omg someone bothered to write a review of a cardboard mockup :eek:

*doesnt see much point beyond "this is how much space it takes up"*

[Maverick]

Originally posted by KingJackal
ROFLMAO

Lol man - but did 3Dfx have a successfull motherboard chipset? Did 3Dfx have a successfull gaming console? ( XBox chipset pricing issue has been resolved ) Did 3Dfx have large military contracts for display drivers in military vehicles?

Bad analogy.

nvidias chipset is arguably only now successful for AthlonXP's. When they are in OEM Wintel PC's (Dell, HP/Compaq etc) then I'll agree its successful. They are still small fry there I'm afraid.

3Dfx did work for console/ video game machine manufacturers like Sega.

And yes 3dfx DID have large contracts with the military (through Obsidian its subsidiary, which had to use nVidia after 3dfx's demise. These guys used like 8 + VSA100 chips in SLI for their military simulators). This did not keep 3dfx's head above water. Very small market.

I think its a timely analogy ;)

nVidia has to come out on top or start loosing OEMs and retail sales to ATi.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Maverick
And yes 3dfx DID have large contracts with the military (through Obsidian its subsidiary, which had to use nVidia after 3dfx's demise. These guys used like 8 + VSA100 chips in SLI for their military simulators). This did not keep 3dfx's head above water. Very small market.


Not really - nVIDIA now power more than just simulators. Apache HUD's, Abrams HUD's - you name it, and it's using nVIDIA chipsets. nVIDIA actually have chipsets in FRONT-LINE ASSETS, so the US military have a very vested in interest in making sure that future driver issues are addressed.

Also, nVIDIA have made a profit every financial quarter of their existance with the exception of last quarter. ATi have made a LOSS every financial quarter of the last few years - I think the last couple of quarters just gave them lower losses ( though they may have finally traded a quarter in the black - haven't checked recently ). That's a totally different market to the one 3Dfx faced.

Furthermore, nVIDIA now command a very large base of installed product - which while not a money earner for them, indicates their top-to-bottom market penetration. 3Dfx never had that, or even anywhere close to it ( they were gamers cards ). The lower-end of the market is still well and truely nVIDIA's - the MX440 has almost no rival for its price. It is quite simply the best bang for you buck - and that sheer volume of low-end sales provides a large pool of earnings that 3Dfx never had the luxury of.

I still say it's not the same situation. Comparable in some aspects - but it's a totally different marketplace, and totally different states for the main competitors.

[Deviant]

KJ's just a hard man to catch out, it's doesn't happen often, if ever.

[dustyslapper]

Genral peeve: I hate it when people use adjective '_______ killer'.
When was the last time we saw an ATI killer, oh yeah was it the Geforce 256ddr or 2gts or the ultra - that looked deadly for a while, maybe the the 3, or perhaps the 3 ti500, no wait surely it was the 9500, oh **** - my bad - that was the Nvidia killer... this business seems bloodier then the final act in Hamlet...


3dfx: [toasting success of Voodoo 2] Oh no - the drink the drink - I am poisoned [dies]
Nvidia: Oh villiany! Ho! Let my buy your tech... seek it out! [stabs Matrox]
Matrox : It is here [waves triple-head display] - Nvidia thou art slain... [stabs Nvidia then dies]
Nvidia: Whats this? The cooling system is too loud? Then drivers to their work [stabs ATI]
ATI: Ohh yet defend me Rage3d, I am but hurt... [dies]
Nvidia: the rest is silence[dies]
[enter BitBoys]
Bitboys: This sight is dismal... I now embrace my fortune!




Nothing like someone wacking out another metaphore....



clearly I am bored - sorry bout this. Good thing you all know Hamlet as well as I do...

[Wibber]

the MX440 has almost no rival for its price.
bollox! that price segment has the most competition! the mx440,radeon 9000 and xabre 400 are within 10-20$ of each other! sure the mx440 has the best price/performance, doesnt mean theres no cometition...

I still dont think nvidia is going anywhere tho

[Elle T]

I'm with Wibber on this the 9000 Pro kicks some serious ass for its price & is on par for price with the rest.
The MX's are nothing compared.

[Volodkovich]

And would i be wrong in saying Dell use ATi graphics cards? And alot of laptops seem to be coming out with ATi onboard solutions. I dont see how Nvidia supposedly have the OEM market share when most of the bought pc's ive seen around have ATi cards. Maybe its in the US etc, but still, ATi have better oem solutions atm IMHO

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Volodkovich
And would i be wrong in saying Dell use ATi graphics cards? And alot of laptops seem to be coming out with ATi onboard solutions. I dont see how Nvidia supposedly have the OEM market share when most of the bought pc's ive seen around have ATi cards. Maybe its in the US etc, but still, ATi have better oem solutions atm IMHO

ATi almost always have had the OEM market to themselves -them and S3 (who exited stage left after they never made the leap to 3D acceleration (their 3D decelerator "Virge" line penetrated the market completely though). They are still around on VIA's onboard graphics as well as mobile chipsets though. "Columbia" will be interesting to see.

nVidia only have the OEM market for add-in boards, not onboard graphics (unless you count the small amount of nforce/nforce2 and onboard TNT2 Vanta graphics that have/will be sold). Remember the AMD market is a very small one compared to the whole pie.

KJ: As to the whole military thing. I still think you are talking about www.Quantum3d.com 's products, who used 3dfx chips solely until nvidia bought them out. They went nvidia after that only 'cause they had to.

cut from Quantums website:

Honeywell Defense Avionics Systems (Teterboro, NJ) has selected Quantum3D® and 3dfx with development from alt.software inc., to provide graphics accelerator design services and 3dfx VSA-100 chips for the AH-64D Apache Longbow's Advanced High Resolution Color Avionics Display. The Color Image Processing Module (CIPM) and the Monochromatic Image Processing Module (MIPM) will use the Quantum3D designed graphics architecture to provide pilots with unparalleled display quality in the Army's most effective attack helicopter. Press release

I think that ends that discussion.

Mav

[dustyslapper]

ATI have controlled the laptop market for years, or so I have always believed.

[Gh0s7 L3mUr]

Originally posted by Maverick
I think that ends that discussion.

Mav


I thought you had been here longer than that to suggest that that is the end of the discussion with KJ. :D

You should know better. ;)

*waits paitently for the KJ reply*

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Wibber
bollox! that price segment has the most competition! the mx440,radeon 9000 and xabre 400 are within 10-20$ of each other! sure the mx440 has the best price/performance, doesnt mean theres no cometition...

I still dont think nvidia is going anywhere tho

W T F are you talking about?

www.pricespy.co.nz

Cheapest MX440 : $101.25
Cheapest R9000 : $160.00

Um, dude - they're no-way NEAR. For the price of that R9000, you can get a Leadtek MX440 - a card with PASSIVE cooling ( I've seen two machines in the last week with dead GPU's because their fans died - so one less point of failiure = good ), very crisp 2D output ( so there's no advantage going to the Radeon ), and legendary drivers - that MX440 card works just sweet under Linux - try that with an R9000 :rolleyes:.


And no Maverick, that doesn't end that discussion :p. Because I know that they DON'T use those VSA-100 chips anymore. Apache helicopters, and indeed most of the aircraft/tanks/whatever in the US are now powered on GeForce2 Go and GeForce4 Go chips ;). See here if you don't believe me ( there was a better new story detailing exactly which chips went with what military appliances, but I've lost that... ):

http://www.ebnews.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=GYH40CSLQQ0TMQSNDBCCK H0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=3100072

As an example, the F-22 display is powered by the mobile Quadro.

Originally posted by Gh0s7 L3mUr
I thought you had been here longer than that to suggest that that is the end of the discussion with KJ. :D

You should know better. ;)

*waits paitently for the KJ reply*

You are being very poetic tonight ( and have good timing with the 'post reply' button )...

[Wibber]

well going by nz prices is retarded, because nz prices are retarded, the rrp's are different

[Deviant]

Originally posted by Wibber
well going by nz prices is retarded, because nz prices are retarded, the rrp's are different

What, maybe we should quote, franks, or yen? We live in NZ in case you hadn't noticed.

[must kill Dell adguy]

Originally posted by KingJackal
W T F are you talking about?

www.pricespy.co.nz

Cheapest MX440 : $101.25
Cheapest R9000 : $160.00

Um, dude - they're no-way NEAR. For the price of that R9000, you can get a Leadtek MX440 - a card with PASSIVE cooling ( I've seen two machines in the last week with dead GPU's because their fans died - so one less point of failiure = good ), very crisp 2D output ( so there's no advantage going to the Radeon ), and legendary drivers - that MX440 card works just sweet under Linux - try that with an R9000 :rolleyes:.

...


????
In case you don't know, ATI cards can run without a fan easily, they barely get hot. I remember my old Geforce2MX, piece of ****, I burned my hand on its crappy heatsink everytime I stuck my hand in the box to change the DIPS...the MX440 does NOT have crisp 2D output....it's fvcking crap....the new Catalyst 3.0 drivers are on par with Nvidia's drivers....and try running Aniso and FSAA on an MX440....12FPS anyone???

I think they are both very even in terms of value, I am completely off nvidia for a while...

[Maverick]

Originally posted by KingJackal


And no Maverick, that doesn't end that discussion :p. Because I know that they DON'T use those VSA-100 chips anymore. Apache helicopters, and indeed most of the aircraft/tanks/whatever in the US are now powered on GeForce2 Go and GeForce4 Go chips ;). See here if you don't believe me ( there was a better new story detailing exactly which chips went with what military appliances, but I've lost that... ):

http://www.ebnews.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=GYH40CSLQQ0TMQSNDBCCK H0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=3100072

As an example, the F-22 display is powered by the mobile Quadro.



errr, now you are loosing me KJ. I just pointed out that 3dfx "used to" be used for military hardware before nvidia bought out 3dfx.

this prooves that your statement that being on military hardware some how made them not vulnerable to loosing market share to their competitors is a poor argument.

keep running down that blind alley if you want to KJ -see how far it gets you;)

nvidiots

[Gh0s7 L3mUr]

Originally posted by Maverick

nvidiots

Seeing I'm on a roll..

*winks at KJ*

.. that is in no way a suitable term for KJ. Last I heard (although he will have upgraded since then) he was using a r7500. :P

I get what your both saying. What I think KJ is most pointing too is that one bad card run doesn't bust a company that has been as successful as nVidia. They have enough in reserves to ride this out. 3dfx did not, they were on the brink due to poor management already. If the current turn did through some twist of fate lead to the downfall of nVidia, it would take ~2 year at the least for their credit to dry up and crumble. That's a hell of a long time in which a lot can happen.

I also understand what your saying mav, in that no company is invincible. Even Microsoft could crumble one day if they don't continue to crush competition.

All in all I don't care who comes out on top. I just wanna play Doom]|[. :D

Competition = good.

An outright winner = bad

[City_Idiot]

Originally posted by Maverick
errr, now you are loosing me KJ. I just pointed out that 3dfx "used to" be used for military hardware before nvidia bought out 3dfx.

this prooves that your statement that being on military hardware some how made them not vulnerable to loosing market share to their competitors is a poor argument.

keep running down that blind alley if you want to KJ -see how far it gets you;)

nvidiots

And whats to say they drop out of the 3d market and the milltery gets them alie and in 2 years they come out with something that ****s all over ATI

seriouldy if anyone thingks its easy and simple for companies like AITI,Nividia,AMD or intel to go under your WRONG

[Wibber]

well I think using rrp (in usd) is a better comparison, since it the card should be arround that much, not +20-50% as ati cards tend to be here.

I agree with the large comanys not going anywhere anytime soon centiment... cept maybe hynix :p thats why I reckon that IBM guy is fll of sh1t

btw: all r9000/9100's can be passive cooled, most are, like my old gf256, the fans all for show

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by must kill Dell adguy
????
In case you don't know, ATI cards can run without a fan easily, they barely get hot. I remember my old Geforce2MX, piece of ****, I burned my hand on its crappy heatsink everytime I stuck my hand in the box to change the DIPS...the MX440 does NOT have crisp 2D output....it's fvcking crap....the new Catalyst 3.0 drivers are on par with Nvidia's drivers....and try running Aniso and FSAA on an MX440....12FPS anyone???

I think they are both very even in terms of value, I am completely off nvidia for a while...

Having used a lot of video cards ( lol - understatement ), I can tell you that 2D output on the MX440 is not crap. If you get a Visiontek MX440, the 2D output is actually better than an ATI Radeon 7200/7000.

What matters with 2D output ( and sadly too few people realise ) is BRAND. NOT CHIPSET MAKER. I've seen some pretty crap 'ATi cards', and some pretty crap 'nVIDIA cards', I've also seen the good in both.

I would rate Leadtek MX440's as having better 2D output than ( bear in mind I've tried all these cards in my rig ):
Chaintech Ti4600
Chaintech MX440
Pine MX440 ( OMG lol :D )
....and from trying them in other rigs, a whole lot of other cards.

It is interesting to note that while the Chaintech Ti4600 had better filters than the Chaintech MX440, even my old Leadtek GeForce2 MX had better ;). That's tested in dually-1600x1200 too, so it's a reasonable stress-test ( which yes, I currently run on a Radeon 7500 ).

Maverick, what I was trying to show was not that nVIDIA do military gear - but rather that they have a deaper volume of chipsets sold in that market. Simulators account for only a small numbers of chipsets - and I believe the latest US Airforce simulators use quad R300 chips. But those chips installed in vehicles sell in larger VOLUME.

I notice this at work too. Now the Radeon's are smashing the Ti4600's up at the high-end, but that's not even relevant.

Number of rigs I've built/upgraded in the last month using a Ti4200/Ti4400/Ti4600/Ti4800/R9000/R9500/R9700 or similar:
0
Number of rigs I've built/upgraded in the last month using an R8500/R7500/R7200 or similar:
0
Number of rigs I've built/upgraded in the last month using a MX400/MX420/MX440/MX460:
6+

....nVIDIA ( at least by my observations here in NZ ), still sell in VOLUME. Yes, they've lost market share and yes, they've lost a lot of mind-share. But that hasn't affected what we actually put in customers' rigs.

It's like the Intel/AMD situation when AMD got their TBirds past 1.2G. At the time Intel was running out of room on their PIII - actually re-calling chips because they turned out to run too hot ( hmmmm.... ). Instead they scrapped scaling that chip and brought out the next gen - just sucking it up and surviving on volume and NAME RECOGNITION for the meantime. It took a while ( well, it felt like it ) before the P4 was finally released, and even then, it looked mediocre next to the AthlonXP.

....but system builders were still using Intel, cos they're Intel. And they were still selling volume of Celeron/PIII chips right up until the P4 came out - despite better price AND performance from AMD's Duron/Athlon line-up. Also in that situation, Intel were a company running in the black, while AMD continue to trade ( I don't know how - lol, need to do some economics some day ) in the red.

There are analogy's that apply both ways - to nVIDIA's imminent collapse, and to ATi's last time with the performance crown. Neither are perfect, and neither seem to be conclusive. I DO see nVIDIA losing money for the next 1-2 quarters as a result of this, but I DON'T see them getting anywhere near the back door.
*shrugs*
Maybe it's just me then.... :confused:

[Maverick]

heh LOL at this "argument" :D

The analogy of 3dfx is a pertinent reminder of history and how a company cannot rest on its laurels (as 3dfx did with V2).

"Feature creap" and not releasing products where millions have been spent in R&D (bitboys, 3dfx, and now nVidias Geforce FX) are signs of poor management. nVidia need to see this as time to turn things around pronto. Its very easy for a company as successful as nvidia has been to slow down while it tries to conquer too many markets (think Hitler and the Russian front LOL)

I realise this is not the end of the world for nVidia (neither was 3dfx's releasing the banshee instead of the V3 instead of the V5 instead of rampage...) but one mistake can lead to another if the management is not careful.

Its been fun sparring with you KJ. Until next time.... :p


________________________________________________

PS: The Intel/ AMD argument was well conceived and is a relevant analogy:

I see Intel and ATi very similar, both have respect of OEMs for delivering a reliable product. If you want a motherboard with low returns and high stability go intel (mobo, chipset, cpu). When you are selling products to corporate users who have offices across the world, and where a % more reliability in terms of uptime of that product will save a company millions of dollars annually, then you arent going to choose a less reliable AMD/ VIA/nVidia solution.
You will choose, Intel/Intel/Intel/(Intel or ATi or Matrox) (mobo/chipset/cpu/graphics). NB: With integrated graphics on intel northbridges, ati will be loosing marketshare in the corporate arena: Even our CAD machines here at work use onboard Intel graphics! (not 3d work natch). I guess this is why ATi felt the need to diversify into the performance arena (which it only half-heartedly cared about until the Radeon).

This makes sense that AMD and nVidia are partnering up: If they can achieve the level of reliability that a pure intel solution provides, and do it cheaper, they will find their way onto corporate desktops. This is where the $$ is. But I dont see this happening overnight either;)

my 2c.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Maverick
Its been fun sparring with you KJ. Until next time.... :p


Awwww c'mon - just when it's getting fun? :(

So it has now been confirmed that the GeForceFX 5800 Ultra won't be sold ( well, past 100,000 units - almost all of which have already been pre-ordered ), but that the GeForceFX 5800 ( non-Ultra ) WILL be sold as pre-prescribed.

Now, the non-Ultra part doesn't use that 'flowFX' or whatever cooling system - and with its lower core clock will probably be manageably cool ( rather than stupidly hot ).

Anyone want to guess whether NV35 will be released either as-well-as ( I doubt it - the FX Ultra cards would look slow and be overpriced then ), or soon after ( more likely ), or 6 months later ( ala product cycle )?

[whetu]

the new Catalyst 3.0 drivers are on par with Nvidia's drivers....

sorry but I just have to LOL at that. My flatmate has a radeon which was once mine, and the catalyst drivers are ARSE. period. (this eliminates the "you dont have a radeon you dont know first hand" backlash)

tho they are a HUGE improvement over earlier ati drivers, they still DO NOT hold a candle to nvidia drivers, and the ATI control panel adds an extra (unecessary) level of clumsiness

and before you cry "biased," I'm a moderator for a reason - I'm one of the most unbiased members here.

[Iblis]

Originally posted by whetu
and before you cry "biased," I'm a moderator for a reason - I'm one of the most unbiased members here.
That's a bit of a loaded statement, now, isn't it? ;) :D

[whetu]

*whistles* :rolleyes: ;)

I dont buy based on brand/chipset, I tend to buy based on a combination of things such as results/opinions of multiple reviews(looking for unbiased/untainted reviewers of course, this immediately rules out THG)/the product brand's reputation for mid to long term support and driver releases/cost/performance/availability/etc

which in my opinion is far more logical and unbiased than:

ati zealot: "I SHALLS BUY TEH ATI BECAUSE I SI NOT AN NVEDIOT!!1 NVIDOTS DIE DIE DEI!~1 MOMMY PAYS FRO MY COUNTARSTRIKE HARDWEAR"
nvidiot: "ATI WILLS DIE WHEN NVIDEA RELEAES TEH GHEYFROCE 6000FX.NET! MOMMY AND DADDY PAYS FRO MY CONTARSTRIKE HARDWEAR"
person in the real world like me: "I've got bills to pay, so I'm going to get off my arse, research, and get the best bang for the buck for my needs"

It takes a lot of work figuring out the best balanced product, but in the long run (especially with support/driver releases) it pays off.

and an analogy direct from viper nz:
"the catalysts have come along way, but comparing them to the detonators is like comparing budget cola to pepsi/coke"

[Iblis]

I was just splitting hairs and making the distinction that noone is truly unbiased. We all have biases no matter how much are aware of them. I'll stop with that before I turn this into an OT thread. ;)

[must kill Dell adguy]

Originally posted by whetu
sorry but I just have to LOL at that. My flatmate has a radeon which was once mine, and the catalyst drivers are ARSE. period. (this eliminates the "you dont have a radeon you dont know first hand" backlash)

tho they are a HUGE improvement over earlier ati drivers, they still DO NOT hold a candle to nvidia drivers, and the ATI control panel adds an extra (unecessary) level of clumsiness

and before you cry "biased," I'm a moderator for a reason - I'm one of the most unbiased members here.

LMAO, biased??? Whetu????

that's a lot of talk, and little substance. What's so special about nvidia drivers that make them sooo much better than the new catalyst drivers??? The only thing that I found useful was the "coolbits" overclocking and refreshrate tweaks...
Oh, and BTW "the catalyst drivers"...are they the ones that were released a month ago.....go back and try it with the Catalyst 3.0 drivers...!!!

[Viper_NZ]

I haven't tried the just new 3.1 Catalysts yet. But I'm still not wetting myself over the 3.0's. They work, and they seem to work quite well... But I've still had issues with them I haven't encountered with nVidia's dets.

d00d. Considering your next real option is SiS (Parhelia is too expensive), it would be wise to not make yourself biased against nVidia, or you'll be pissing your $$$ away...

Seriously, how much difference does one zealot make to ATi or nVidia's revenue?? It's a drop in an ocean. You're way better off just buying whatever will give you best bang for buck.

Which is the reason I bought a Ti4200 as soon as they came out, and why I have an XP 1800+ at 2gig.

[whetu]

Originally posted by must kill Dell adguy
that's a lot of talk, and little substance.
well known and widely accepted fact, no need for backup. jump on the bandwagon called "reality - not blind devotion"
Oh, and BTW "the catalyst drivers"...are they the ones that were released a month ago.....go back and try it with the Catalyst 3.0 drivers...!!!
Installed the catalyst 3.0's last week, still wasnt impressed, let my flatmate keep the radeon.

please, your fanboyishness is tiresome and boring.

[[H]arls]

Again with the ATI Vs nVidia... :rolleyes:

nVidia drivers come as one package when you download them, versus ATI, where the actual 'driver' part and 'control panel' are seperate downloads.
The new nVidia drivers have all the cards options in one tab on the display control panel, it just makes it a lot tidier and simpler. The coolbits is another great thing about their drivers, as you said dellboy.
I've had a LOT more success with nvidia based cards and drivers than I ever have with ATI's.

ATI drivers have improved 10 fold over the past year, I'll give them that - but they're still not on par with nvidias, not by a long shot.

Go on, call me an nvidiot. You know you want to.


Wait...whats that in my system? My god, its an ATI Radeon 9700! Holy crap there I was saying how great nvidia drivers are and low & behold I have an ATI card! Knock me down with a wet sheep, OMG NVIDAI SUX0R! LOL! TeHY ARE TEH D00m0r3D! A/S/L! :rolleyes:

I had the fanboy beaten out of me a long time ago. Most of the time im like whetu said - "I need to pay the bills, whats the best bang for the buck?" But In this case, the card didnt cost me anything and now im going for balls-to-the-wall speed, and funny enough the ATI card is arguably the fastest on the market at the present time.
I nearly smashed the freaking thing at least 5 times trying to get it to work in my system, a pain I cant say that I've personally had with nvidia cards.

Its not worth arguing about anyhow.

This turned into one hell of a rant, my apologies. ;)

[dairyboy]

I like how you can just slap in any nvidia card, and some dets, and it just works.
Even really old software, from years ago....there are so many years of intense development behind EVERY detonator.....

its usually pretty hard to find software that it _doesnt_ work with. Even old winamp2 3d plugins etc, etc....

[Maverick]

you are right Harls, this topic is pointless. Both compnaies have great drivers now. With new hardware both companies drivers will be buggy, over time both companies drivers will improve alot.

eg1: nVidia's Geforce 256 -the last time nVidia really released a new product with no prior driver development, it was slow and buggy. By the time I got my hands on one I didnt know what the fuss was about. I suspect the Geforce FX will be much the same.

eg2: Radeons 8500 (everyone wrote it off for its crappy drivers on release, ATi ended out producing drivers that went on to beat the Geforce3 ti500).

[mird-OC]

well, speaking as a person who stretches their ATi drivers to their limits, i have encountered only minor problems... nothing that i wasn't prepared for.

the thing is, the ATi drivers are very different to Dets, so people who are used to Dets can end up being very frustrated with ATi's drivers. i know i was at first, but i've gotta say i actually prefer the ATi drivers now, as far as configuring and tweaking goes. obviously ATi are still a bit behing nVidia as far as optimisations go, but ATi does seem to be playing catch up.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by must kill Dell adguy
What's so special about nvidia drivers that make them sooo much better than the new catalyst drivers???

One word:

LINUX

I have 3 machines that I own and keep in my room - 1 Windows, 2 Linux. If I want to do anything 3D in hardware well, or even just want to use the dual-out feature of a graphics card for the 2 Linux machines, I HAVE TO buy an nVIDIA card.

I hear rumors from a few mates that game primarily in Linux that they actually ( once fully tweaked ) get better performance in Linux than in Windows - because they can recomplie their kernals/drivers/whatever to be tweaked out just for their games and their processors. If I was as 1337 and had as much spare time - I'd be doing the same.

When I first switched to ATi ( about 8-10months ago - I would have bought a Visiontek/PNY/Leadtek dual-out MX440, but nobody here or in Aus felt the urge to sell them :( ), I was hoping for legendary 2D quality. But after having used Leadtek nVIDIA cards, there was a negligable and arguable difference. Also, several programs that used to work with my old GeForce2 MX either ceased to work, or worked with bugs ( A few OpenGL apps, a few game demos etc ). Of course, ATi are constantly improving - but I'm yet to see any conclusive evidence that their drivers are in the same league as nVIDIA's - let alone better. I still get render errors in those same games. Warcraft III, Freedom Force - I dunno, maybe they're fine with R9700's or with all the options up - but they're not on my R7500 :(.
( and they work 100% with nVIDIA cards I sell at work too :( )

But I suppose if you only buy the latest ATi cards ( which their driver dev's seem to actually care about ), only play a few major FPS titles, and only use Windows as an OS - they are pretty good AY3! H4hA pwnz0r!11!!11! :)

[reaver]

did someone say something about video cards?

ive been too busy to follow the thread trying installing my old gf2mx in my brothers toyota starlet as a heads up display :D

tomorrow the turret!
________
bmw h2r (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_H2R)

[DiscoStu]

Originally posted by mird-OC
the thing is, the ATi drivers are very different to Dets, so people who are used to Dets can end up being very frustrated with ATi's drivers. i know i was at first, but i've gotta say i actually prefer the ATi drivers now, as far as configuring and tweaking goes. obviously ATi are still a bit behing nVidia as far as optimisations go, but ATi does seem to be playing catch up.
I have to agree, I find the catalysts more flexible in the options offered. Saves having to use a 3rd party app to adjust some of the settings you don't get offered in the dets. But thats just me.

[Maverick]

I think in some cases game devs are to blame for poor implementation of Ati and other non-nVidia cards. It was the same for the early days of nVidia when 3dfx were king, and Direct3D was an after thought (OpenGl on the other hand... John Carmack made nVidia what they are today IMHO).
nVidia have been king for a while now, and Unreal Warfare was developed almost solely on Geforce2/3 hardware for example.

John has iterated he is impressed with ATi's efforts to change their drivers to his needs. I think future games will have less and less issues as a result of better drivers being written by ATi, as well as game devs actually developing the game with nVidia AND ATi as their primary cards of choice. Doom 3 will rock on both platforms.

If you think of Blizzard's 3D efforts: Diablo2 was one of the last games with Glide support native. It gives you the idea of how long in development some of these games are before they are released. When Warcraft3 was in development, nVidia was arguably king. Its a safe bet that the next Blizzard game will be much more ATi Radeon friendly.

Drivers and graphics cards are like Mainland cheese in that sense;)

[Wobbler]

Originally posted by Maverick
If you think of Blizzard's 3D efforts: Diablo2 was one of the last games with Glide support native.
Diablo 2's perspective mode, or 3d is buggy as poop on an nvidia chip, get fps drops to nothing in certain places etc, I cant even see what it changes to be honest, swapped it to 2d and 60fps all the time, think thats the limit of the engine though(sorry about the off topic randomness^^)
Im going to hold off any judgement till the cards are actually released.

[varkk]

Originally posted by Wobbler
Diablo 2's perspective mode, or 3d is buggy as poop on an nvidia chip, get fps drops to nothing in certain places etc, I cant even see what it changes to be honest, swapped it to 2d and 60fps all the time, think thats the limit of the engine though(sorry about the off topic randomness^^)
Im going to hold off any judgement till the cards are actually released.

that was one of the first things I noticed when I had to change form my voodoo banshee to a GF2MX, the 3d using glide was wonderful, but on the GF2 it wasn't anywhere near as good.

[I.R]

Er back on Topic:

I was having a look at the FX launch partners pages and went back to the BFG page!

I believe they've taken off the FX 5800 Ultra now

http://www.bfgtech.com/fx_product_gfx.html

This was the original thread about BFG FX card!

http://forums.overclockers.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4901

Seems they've lowered clock speed and reduced minimum power requirements :rolleyes:

[Maverick]

yep. Not much point trying to overclock a card to sell it to those few 1337 people who "must have the fastest" when the Radeon 9700 Pro is faster for less.

nVidia must be rather embaressed over the whole "dustbuster" card jokes, and the fact that they have a 500MHz card with 1000MHz RAM that isnt any faster than a card with much lower clocks (R9700P)!

The GF FX Ultra has gone the way of the V5 6000;)

roll on nV35