1ghz T-bird vs. 1.3ghz Morgan

[Volodkovich]

hey,
im looking to buy a new system, on the cheap, and have the option of a processor around the $150 mark. I could go for a second hand 1ghz T-bird, or a new Durrie 1.3ghz. Im pretty much planning to play games, OC, and do a bit of work on it. What processor do u think would be a better bet? Would the T-bird be much faster than the Durrie Morgan?

[Binky Stunt Cat]

umm, brand new XP 1800's are $305
why not get one of those??

[I.R]

Don't know what you can expect from the durrie but the 1 gig Athlon can OC anywhere from 0-500mhz (depending on the chip cooling, voltage mod etc)

Have a look here (http://overclockers.cssftware.com/cpudb/index.cfm) for the 1.3 Gig durrie..... not really the best example :eek:

[dustyslapper]

My 1200 durrie hits around 1400 with stock voltage. I think my psu is having huge issues pushing anything faster. Enermax by next week - hoping for 1450...

I think asan runs his 1300 @ 1500.

[SilverPriest]

I'd go for a nice highly ocable Tbird
AXIA style.
Or whatever that other stepping was, AYHJA? Thats what mine is anyway, sits @ 1.6ghz from 1.33 happily...
But thats just me ;)

[asanthadenz]

if i were u ill get the Duron 1300.

Iv checked a review somewhere and the Duron 1.3 almost beats the Athlon 1.3 in some benches.

The Duron runs cooler than the Athlons, ull be able to Clock tht Duron to 1.5ghz if your lucky.

and also ur getting a Brand new Duron rather than a Second Hand Athlon which is good, imagine wht torture the previous owner had done to the Athlon.

[Wibber]

GO TEH DURON!

[TORN]

I have a 1 G AXIA,
Run at 1333 stable at 1.825 or 1000 stable at 1.625 :)

A vote is needed ?? :P

[_N_]

i would go for the duron cause it's newer and has things like SSE. And it's faster.

[KingJackal]

If it's a particularily good stepping of TBird ( AXIA, AYJHA, etc ) then I'd be very tempted - expecially if you could find a 1.2G TBird for that price.

If it's anything but a top stepping though, I'd go for the Duron ;).

BUT

That would depend on your mobo. If you've got an older socket-A mobo, or a cheap board ( Iwill KA266 etc ), then that Duron is going to have 'issues'. The morgans are only compatible with newer boards, and even then, not with many of the particularily cheap boards.

So fess up - what's ya mobo ( alternatively, just reply in the 'Post System Specs Here' thread already :p )

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by Binky Stunt Cat
umm, brand new XP 1800's are $305
why not get one of those??
heh heh. umm, maybe coz that would be more than twice his budget? :rolleyes:

:D

i'd try to find a nice tbird... you can sometimes pick up 1.2GHz, 1.33GHz, and 1.4GHz tbirds for around the $150 mark, so just keep your eyes peeled.

[asanthadenz]

Originally posted by mird-OC

heh heh. umm, maybe coz that would be more than twice his budget? :rolleyes:

:D

i'd try to find a nice tbird... you can sometimes pick up 1.2GHz, 1.33GHz, and 1.4GHz tbirds for around the $150 mark, so just keep your eyes peeled.

Could any of guys tell me good places to find 2nd hand hardware,
either than Trademe,OCNZ, and trademe.

Must be in NZ

[Deviant]

I'd definately go the T-Bird (good stepping). It will overclock more, and some benchmarks lie (well can be mis-interpreted).

Take SiSoft Sandra CPU benchmark.

a 1GHz Duron = 1 GHz T-Bird, cause it doesn't fill the Durons little cache. In real world performance the T-Bird can be nearly double the speed. Definately alot more powerful.

I would worry about SSE, might give you 5-20% performance increase over non SSE Duron some apps, like office applications NOT games, but the T-Bird at same clock speed will consitantely be 40-80% faster in almost all apps for same clock speed (-5-20% in certain apps and your still a winner).

Duron you will get to 1.5GHz, and a T-Bird 1 or 1.1 GHz with a good stepping will also overclock to 1.5 GHz.

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by asanthadenz
Could any of guys tell me good places to find 2nd hand hardware,
either than Trademe,OCNZ, and trademe.

Must be in NZ
here is prolly the best place for real good bargains but the www.dragonpc.co.nz secondhand board is a pretty good place too...

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by mird-OC

here is prolly the best place for real good bargains but the www.dragonpc.co.nz secondhand board is a pretty good place too...

A big mixture there though - some REAL cheap prices, some MORE THAN DRAGON'S SELLING IT FOR prices occasionally, lol :D.

[Elle T]

$242 is the cheapest price for a XP1600 new.
I'd just bite the bullet and pay that little bit extra.
Just remember you get what you pay for.
128&64 vs 128&256

[Geek4Life]

Originally posted by Binky Stunt Cat
umm, brand new XP 1800's are $305
why not get one of those??
Because you can get them for less than that in a Retail Box. Or even less again with out the retail packaging. ;)

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Elle T
$242 is the cheapest price for a XP1600 new.
I'd just bite the bullet and pay that little bit extra.
Just remember you get what you pay for.
128&64 vs 128&256

Dude, that's an extra $100. That's A LOT. - 40% more!!

Not everyone can just up their budget by 40%. Would you be suggesting somebody looking for a house under $150k just 'bite the bullet' and buy the house that's selling for $250k? I think not. Think to scale man, to scale... ;)

[Tiggerz]

I would suggest focusing on the mainboard then getting the processor that you can currently afford.

Most good amd boards will support both the duron and the xp processors.. So you could get a duron now if that is within your budget, then upgrade later to a better xp processor at a later date if you decide you really need to.

[Elle T]

KJ most 1.3ghz durons are around the $190 mark

Whats $60 when you get more for you money.

I'm a student as well and i live on sweet f**k all money but when it comes to computer parts its cheaper to go the full hog by buying the better gear to save the cash later on.

[Volodkovich]

yea, well thats wat im gonna do, Im buying a new board - looking at the Epox 8K3a. Im buying a cheapo processor now to get me through til i got some extra cash to buy a tbred or barton when it comes out. I cant really spend over $150 as i am on a real tight budget, and if i did, i would have to get a cheaper 3d card which i dont really wanna do as i'll be gaming quite a bit. thanks for all the help - it looks like a good stepping 1ghz t-bird.

[Binky Stunt Cat]

Originally posted by Geek4Life

Because you can get them for less than that in a Retail Box. Or even less again with out the retail packaging. ;)
tell me where!!!

[Geek4Life]

Originally posted by Binky Stunt Cat

tell me where!!!
AMD Athlon 1800XP CPU Retail Box with Fan $285 inc GST @ Paradigm PCs (http://www.pp.co.nz/) also check out Dragon PCs (http://www.dragonpc.co.nz/) and Starlyte (http://www.starlyte.co.nz/).

[Sydog]

hehe I just realized Dragon only sells retail Athlons now, **** wonder when that happened, and the Xp 1800+ is only $270 there

[Deviant]

Only $268 at e-one
http://www.e-one.co.nz/PartsPriceList.htm

[Binky Stunt Cat]

ooooooooohhhhhh
looks nice.......
wonder if JB will drop his.....

[Tojja]

> Think to scale man, to scale...

sorry KJ, cant run with that - thinking to scale (relative versus absolute) is inappropriate much of the time.

A 20c K-bar is 25c 5 minutes down the road - 25% more, but shiz, its 5c ffs.

Owners of a house want $250,000, you can only afford $242,000 - $8,000 is a lot of money, but only 3.3%.

With $, scale is less important than absolute numbers (IMHO).

But $100 extra for an XP is OTT :)

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Tojja
> Think to scale man, to scale...

sorry KJ, cant run with that - thinking to scale (relative versus absolute) is inappropriate much of the time.

A 20c K-bar is 25c 5 minutes down the road - 25% more, but shiz, its 5c ffs.

Owners of a house want $250,000, you can only afford $242,000 - $8,000 is a lot of money, but only 3.3%.

With $, scale is less important than absolute numbers (IMHO).

But $100 extra for an XP is OTT :)

Ah but you see ( this could be a funny discussion, hehe :D ):

That 5c on the K-Bar is probably less than the equivalent cost to you in time. You have to weigh up the whole cost, obviously - and the time taken to get the K-Bar is included in that. It's still to scale ;).

And as for the $8000 extra for the house - it's not so much the scale of that relative to the money you do have, as that AND the amount relative to your income. Again, the time taken to get it must be weighed in - and if that's another 4months savings, then that's a lot of time.

And yes, I AM the guy that walks a km to save a single $ on an icecream purely cos I'm cheap. But my time is cheap ( I have lots of it ), while my money is in much more limited supply ( being at Uni kinda limits my 8-5 options ) ;).

I still say it's all to scale. I mean, if you found out that a person wanting a $150 CPU had $151 in the bank, $5 in their wallet, was at school, had 0 income until the school holidays, and even then would probably only earn $1000 over the whole year, whould you STILL suggest 'just splashing out' and borrowing the extra $100.

( and yes, I've been in worse situations and still had lots of people telling me to get 'the next' thing up the line :rolleyes: )

[Tojja]

Agreed - naively speaking, without the context you couched your examples in, I stand by my call.

Different strokes, but if you use %, I think it indicates you are a more frugal person (e.g. absolute isnt important - the concept of saving money *is*) - frugal for any reason, mind you.

[mird-OC]

big picture also... if you were living in the same place for 10 years, you really like k-bars so you bought 1 k-bar every day for 10 years. you had one dairy 1 mins walk away that sold them for 25c, and another dairy 5 mins walk away for 20c. if you choose to go to the closest dairy and spend 25c that's fine but over 10 years, that's 3650 x 5c = $182.50 which equates to 730 extra k-bars you could have had ;)

yes, babble babble babble :D

[KingJackal]

Yeah - obviously you have an entirely valid point ( and me, tight - yeah, probably :D ).

But I'm not sure a $250 option is the right thing to suggest to somebody wanting a $150 option. Hell, I haven't earned $100 total over the last 4 months! :eek:

[Tojja]

fair dinkum (looks at watch too see if another $100 in the coffers ;) - yeah right)

[Geek4Life]

Originally posted by mird-OC
big picture also... if you were living in the same place for 10 years, you really like k-bars so you bought 1 k-bar every day for 10 years. you had one dairy 1 mins walk away that sold them for 25c, and another dairy 5 mins walk away for 20c. if you choose to go to the closest dairy and spend 25c that's fine but over 10 years, that's 3650 x 5c = $182.50 which equates to 730 extra k-bars you could have had ;)

yes, babble babble babble :D
or you could buy buy you weekly supply at once though you would have to factor in the extra work carried out because of the extra weight being carried.

The extra 5c would be worth it if the k-bars were fresher than at the other dairy.

Or you could just go to the closest dairy and put forward the proposal that over the 10 years you are going to spending so much money with them, that you could easily go down the road and get them from their. But then they'd miss out on all this money.

[Volodkovich]

ok ok, enough of all the pricing and wat percentage u can afford...n e way back to the topic, would a 1ghz t-bird with a good stepping be faster than a 1.3ghz morgan OCed to 133fsb?

[Humantuckshop]

OK, this wasn't really cleared up in the previous pages of crap, but you are going to get a 133MHz FSB 'C' T/Bird are you not?

If so (and I hope so) I would find a T/Bird with the AXIA stepping and unlock it so you could have the FSB @ say 166MHz FSB and the multiplier @ 7 or something like that.

Because a Morgan with it's measly 100MHz FSB probably won't get much higher than 133Mhz FSB anyway.

So, yeah, personally I think the T/Bird has more potential that the Durrie. Especially if you team it up with say the Epox 8K3A awesome overclocker, that mobo. The best infact.

[Deviant]

Originally posted by Volodkovich
ok ok, enough of all the pricing and wat percentage u can afford...n e way back to the topic, would a 1ghz t-bird with a good stepping be faster than a 1.3ghz morgan OCed to 133fsb?

Yes yes already, what Humantuckshop said, the T-Bird is much faster when you are going to get them to the same clock speed.

[TheChosen_1]

Originally posted by asanthadenz


Could any of guys tell me good places to find 2nd hand hardware,
either than Trademe,OCNZ, and trademe.

Must be in NZ

Buy sell and exchange, ive seen alot of ahrdware in there.

[Deviant]

Originally posted by TheChosen_1


Buy sell and exchange, ive seen alot of ahrdware in there.

Don't you mean "trade and exchange", they also have a website and do it all over the web.
http://www.trade-exchange.co.nz/

There's also "Loot", were you could win ten thoooouuuusand doooooollllllers.
http://www.loot.co.nz/Navigation/Home.asp

[Tojja]

no you condecending ejit, BSE is south island T&E equivalent (with funny ads on TV)

/edit - too harsh - toned down :)

[Wibber]

don't mind him, hes prolly justb wasted :D

[Deviant]

Originally posted by Tojja
no you condecending ejit, BSE is south island T&E equivalent (with funny ads on TV)

/edit - too harsh - toned down :)

What's this "South Island" thing you talk about?

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Deviant


What's this "South Island" thing you talk about?

*plots a gruesome death for all affiliated with the airforce*

No wait - we don't have one of those anymore! :eek: :rolleyes:

[Volodkovich]

well, i could run the duron at 166fsb aswell using the Epox 8k3a+ mobos asynchronus mode, but it looks as though it will be an AXIA t-bird.
Just wondering, would there be any difference in performance running a cpu at 166fsb asynchronus compared to running a 166fsb, with the multiplier lowered?

[Humantuckshop]

You wouldn't be running the CPU @ 166Mhz FSB - the RAM would run @ 166 the CPU would still run @ 133.

Well from my experience: Asynchronous absolutely sucks.

I tried this on my XP333 and it didn't give better performance, actually performance was worse........


So, to recap: don't use asynchronous, it seems to be crappy.

[Deviant]

Theoretically the system can't run slower when the memory is running faster. It definately isn't a great improvement running asynchronous but not slower. If it runs slower another parameter must have been changed like CAS latency.

A Duron can run greater than 133 MHz FSB and have synchrounous or asynch memory.

Post some benchmarks and setups that you think run slower.

[Humantuckshop]

Yeah, in theory, isn't theory great? Unfortunately reality sets in tho.........

And I won't be posting any benchies because I don't use the XP333 anymore. Hence no Asynchronous mode.

[mird-OC]

the general rule is don't run asynchronous. on a socket a system there is no improvement running asychronous.

[swiftynz]

i've got both a duron 1200 and a tbird axia 1ghz at the moment and they are almost exactly the same speed. i clocked both the duron and the athlon to ~1260mhz (133x9.5) and there is NO noticeable difference in games, windows or anywhere. the only difference is a slight change in 3dmark scores where the duron gets a few more marks (something like 40 or so).

however a 1ghz axia can overclock to far more than 1260mhz and when both cpus are overl****ed to the max (for the duron thats about 1300, tbird about 1400), the tbird wins, but it runs a hell of a lot hotter.

if you've got or are planning to get good cooling go the tbird. otherwise the duron morgans are great cpus.

[Wibber]

sound advice

[Volodkovich]

tbird it is!