Stop pi$$ing us around AMD

[Deviant]

Well the news all over the web is we aren't going to see Hammer for the desktop until Q3 2003, thats a year away. Barton will be here in March (about a year late itself with no SOI).

AMD have lost so much credibility with me today. Absoutely every thing they have done of late, has been huge delays.

Now I'm no Intel fan, but today I feel like going out and buying a P4.

When Hammer finally gets here it will be outdated. Prescot will be here on 0.09 microns, and will probably be running at 3.5-4 GHz and it will have dual channel DDR2 which will probably beat Hammer, cause Hammer will be using old technology.

I'd say the only hammers we will see is metal ones driving nails into AMDs coffin.

oh and links are everywhere:
http://www.deviantpc.com/coranto/EpFulVluZlHvXzfmLG.shtml
http://www.tomshardware.com/technews/index.html#062403
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00150/

[jeef]

maybe they r just lettin some ppl catch up? :)

[SilverPriest]

Not when they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars jeef ;)
I'm sick and tired of waiting for AMD this and AMD that, sick of these bloody BS paper launches.

Nforce2, should have been out and about not a month or two after it was released on paper :rolleyes:

Ugh, i hate paper launches, gives the big ole tech sites the samples, then basically leave us like chihuahuas salivating over the german shephards bone.
Kinda crappy analogy, but hey....
Also, AMD have given me sweet f/a reason to update my cpu.
My 1.33 tbird runs damn fast @ stock, and ocs to 1.6ghz @ 1.85V
I don't need performance any faster than that.
And what they do give, is too damn expensive.

I'm hoping nforce 2 comes out before the end of the year, but i'm not holding my breath.

I've only been an AMD user for two reasons.
1) They were the best bang for the buck @ the time (P4 willies)
2) I guess, i like to root for the underdog ya know.
I'm an AMD fan to some extent, but not a fanboy ;)
I like their products, but when they piss about with press conferences and paper launches, one can't help but feel just a little disheartened about their long term prospects......
Especially after seeing these huge losses.

In conclusion, i just got up, and i felt like writing a huge rant :D

[KingJackal]

All I have to say is that just goes to show there's no sense 'waiting for hammer' or 'waiting for NV30' or 'waiting for Duke Nukem Forever' (:p :D ).

I realise you're dissapointed Deviant, but.... get over it! It's just a chip. If AMD don't have it out until then, maybe they'll be returning principally to the budget market, which doesn't worry me. If you need a fast chip and the P4 is a fast chip and does what you want - buy it. There's no sense holding off because of the Hammer or 'brand loyalty'.

( brand loyalty be d@mned, best product for the price! )
:p

$0.02

[I.R]

Yeah doesn't look good for AMD with Intel reaching 3Gig and AMD still on a paper launch of arround 2.2Gig :(
Though AMD's upgrade path for the end user kicks ass...... new mobo for the Intel 3gig chip indeed:p

[Deviant]

Originally posted by I.R
Yeah doesn't look good for AMD with Intel reaching 3Gig and AMD still on a paper launch of arround 2.2Gig :(
Though AMD's upgrade path for the end user kicks ass...... new mobo for the Intel 3gig chip indeed:p

Thanks KJ, I needed someone to slap me. Actually I got over it about 10 minutes after I posted that, and am looking forward to a P4 upgrade maybe later this year or early next year. Why I don't know? cause I already have an XP2000+ overclocked to 1.8GHz.

[jeef]

KJ
or 'waiting for Duke Nukem Forever'

how long have i been waiting for that game!! :) i played mahattan project and thought that they made that instead of nukem forever, o well :rolleyes:

[Zilla]

I think 3DRealms put "Forever" in the name for a reason, cuz the bastards knew it'd take em that long to finish it! :rolleyes:

As for AMD, i think they're still in the race... The problem with making people wait is they get their hopes up, and expectations grow.

[mird-OC]

LMAO @ Ed (overclockers.com):

Don't you wonder at least a little if life at AMD is like, "Let's make TBreds! Oops, we can't make them right. Let's try Hammers instead. Oops, can't make them right, either. How about SOI? Oops, 0-for-3. Next!"?

honestly tho, it's obvious that it's not just AMD having trouble with their future chips. i think we're going to see this kind of pissing around from a lot of manufacturers in the near future coz the game is just getting too complex.

the bus speed of the P4 is a big worry for AMD, but really now - things are fast enough. hell, i'm still using SDRAM, and i'm not exactly complaining about performance ;)

[Gh0s7 L3mUr]

It is very silly of AMD to expect "us" to wait, we are not extactly know as a paicent (sp?) bunch. We are the type who will buy what ever chip is "best bang for bucks". ATi found that out and made sure they released a product that would satisfy. AMD needs to realise that their growth is due to word of mouth by loyal follows. And those followers will turn to Intel if Intel offers "best bang for bucks". They also need to release the damn chip already.

I will probably go P4 and Radeon for my next upgrades. :D

[jeef]

my next serious upgrade wont be for another 5months so prolly by then AMD will surely have a new line out... of sum form...?

[Binky Stunt Cat]

next one i'm getting is a 333Mhz fsb chip...

[ktulu]

Originally posted by Gh0s7 L3mUr
It is very silly of AMD to expect "us" to wait, we are not extactly know as a paicent (sp?) bunch. We are the type who will buy what ever chip is "best bang for bucks". ATi found that out and made sure they released a product that would satisfy. AMD needs to realise that their growth is due to word of mouth by loyal follows. And those followers will turn to Intel if Intel offers "best bang for bucks". They also need to release the damn chip already.

I will probably go P4 and Radeon for my next upgrades. :D

hate to tell you this... but o/c's are only a very small percentage of the market. I work for a large company which probably has 10,000 computers (at a rough guess) and you sure as hell wont be hearing the IT guys saying "wish AMD would hurry up and release their next chip"... we're still using win95 for our workstations ffs.

[Wibber]

yeah they may have 10,000 machines, but since they dont update them that much, they aint gonna provide that much revenue either :)

[Blitzkrieg]

its desktops on SHELVES by end of q1 03 not end of 03 deviant, get it right.
"A spokesman from the company told us that desktop versions of Hammer are still planned to ship (for revenue) in Q1 2003 with systems on shelves at the turn of Q1 2003, not the second half of 2003 as we stated. "
that means by the end of march on shelves for u to buy.

They had process problems at .13 it takes time to fix unfortunately and if u get it wrong and ur opponent gets it right then u get owned for at least 6months which has happened
and p5 on .09? yeah right and amd will have 2800+ in retail channel at nearly everyshop this xmas too...

intel have JUST switched the celeron to .13 so im doubting p5 at .09 in quantity at all next year
limited supplies if lucky, and thats assuming a smooth transition to .09

[Deviant]

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg
its desktops on SHELVES by end of q1 03 not end of 03 deviant, get it right.
"A spokesman from the company told us that desktop versions of Hammer are still planned to ship (for revenue) in Q1 2003 with systems on shelves at the turn of Q1 2003, not the second half of 2003 as we stated. "
that means by the end of march on shelves for u to buy.

They had process problems at .13 it takes time to fix unfortunately and if u get it wrong and ur opponent gets it right then u get owned for at least 6months which has happened
and p5 on .09? yeah right and amd will have 2800+ in retail channel at nearly everyshop this xmas too...

intel have JUST switched the celeron to .13 so im doubting p5 at .09 in quantity at all next year
limited supplies if lucky, and thats assuming a smooth transition to .09

Tone down a bit and read it all carefully. Yes they will be around, probably as much as XP2400+,2600+,2700+ and 2800+ are now. They are all out but no one can seem to find any. When AMD say volume in 3Q, you know thats when we will see them.

Al Intel had already demonstrated Prescot on 0.09 haven't they. I'm pretty sure. They have been at 0.13 for months and will switch within a year for sure. Even AMD are planning a switch to 0.09 in 12 months time.

Look at their roadmap if you don't believe me.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_608,00.html

Don't be so naieve.

[Ragnor]

It's takes alot of moe-nay and time to actually launch a new processor, we're not talking next speed increase of the althon here.. we're talking big big change..

I'd rather they take their time, so that the processor and platform work flawlessly together smooth as silk.. as opposed to it coming out buggy and dodgy now...

[Elle T]

I was pretty sure that the P4s are very close to the end of their life span but the P5 is over a year or so away so they will probley just redesign the P4 again & sell it untill P5 is ready.

Which would mean after the P4 3.06 & the next one after that there will be a halt in new releases for 6 months at least.
This is good because it would force a price drop slowly & give AMD some breathing space.

And I wish AMD would get their **** together because they have a better upgrade path & have always been better bang for buck.
They are trying hard to get OEMs to buy their chips but yet they seem to be turning their backs on the market segments that support them.
Also as soon as AMD fab plants are upgraded we might see alot more chips on market.


The other annoying thing is how the IT industry is so Intel biased "AMD run too hot" or "Not as relible as Intel" or " AMD motherboards have issues".
It seems everyone in the industry believes Intels press releases & dismisses AMD - And considering that with technology your ment to approach it with an open mind it seems that it would be nice for another "Willies" chip from Intel just to wake ppl up.

Another issue is: how many ppl believe THG & the Intel fanboy'ism
that run rampant on that site.
Classic example - the No heatsink burn out test - p4 run hotter that T-Breds but a T-bred wasn't included.
I'm sick of sites that cover up using thses tactics instead of being honest - i've gotten to the point of not reading conclusions because of this.

[Blitzkrieg]

im not being naive

intel has many fabs, u cant just change over night to .09 with all fabs
they only just changed the celeron over to .13 with most of the celerons being .18 still and u think .09 in mass supply next year??
ok.....
theyll change 1 or 2 fabs and have enough to supply a few oems if they are lucky

looking at the conscripts it looks like amd might still have process problems which isnt good. and they are looking at cutting costs so that means they probably will delay hammer coz it has a larger die, one of the only ways i see them cutting the $350million in costs happening
barton on for 03 :/ unless u want to pay for a sledge :(

a demo chip doesnt mean squat its possible to make chips when u dont even have ur production up and running, i forgot the name of the method. But its hellishly expensive and used for demon chips etc working out the bugs/seeing if something is possible etc. i doubt those chips where made on a production process

[RTY]

I think AMD will be alright. I bought an AMD 486 DX 40 when Intel had the DX2 66 out and saved money plus got sweet performance.

If AMD can get a couple 'o' good developers to offer patches for their 64 bit chips, say Discreet gives a patch up for 3DS MAX, AMD could make good money off these high margin chips.

Say a game developer wants a renderfarm what are they gonna do buy Xeon? Xeon hasn't even reached 533 bus yet let alone much over 2 Ghz!!!

AMD could kill Xeons with a dual or quad Opteron solution, absolutely maim them. AMD are hitting Intel where they are weak and it won't be difficult for AMD to undercut Xeon prices.

Also AMD shares are at a ten year low at the moment...

I'm not an AMD fanboy I'm getting a Pentium 4 this week, they make by far the most sense for performance users (not that I do much more that piss around and drink coffee).

[varkk]

Originally posted by RTY

Say a game developer wants a renderfarm what are they gonna do buy Xeon? Xeon hasn't even reached 533 bus yet let alone much over 2 Ghz!!!

um Intel Xeon 2.8GHz Socket 603 Processor CPU$1471.00 $1654.88
from pricespy
but yeah, I ain't got the $$ lying around to spend on a dual CPU system, but then again I'm not going to put together a renderfarm or anything either....

[RTY]

Umm yeah the chips exist but where are the mobos? none that I can find are rated for for 533 bus and even the 400 ones are over $1400...

When I look at Dell and such they are still flogging 1.8 Xeons (with 1 cpu to boot...)

I don't know that much but I think AMD might be showing some wisdom going after the Xeon, it looks like Intel's weak link to me.

Even at half the price there has to be good money there, of course the chips aren't even out yet so this is just crazy talk but I think there is a market if they get them out early next year :)

[varkk]

Actually I thought that AMD was going after the Itanium as the weakest link. (They're gonnahit it with a hammer I believe)

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by varkk
Actually I thought that AMD was going after the Itanium as the weakest link. (They're gonnahit it with a hammer I believe)
two birds with one stone i believe. although the itanium is kinda in a different league.

[2 much thinking]

Im quite glad that this thread was started. I was thinking of starting one and eveyone could state why they chose to have the cpu they do in their pc. Some people will go "booo hiss another AMD vs. intel thread" but its one of the main descions when buying a pc so this has proved that we can discuss AMD and intel in the same thread without people shouting "MOD!! Get here quick!!!"

the processor in my rig is an AMD XP1700+. I chose AMD because it was the best performing chip for the price. Also i have more experience with AMD motherboards so i didn't have to think about it for too long.

I think for maximum performance an Intel system would be the best deal. For an average home user to quite serious user on a reasonal budget, AMD would be best.

Any sugestions, comments, additions?

[jeef]

at home i have an xp1800+ and here at work i have a P4 1.6, personally i have nothing against intel but for home i baught the xp1800+ purely on price, really i dont notice a difference between my home machine and work machine (cept that at home ive got a gf4 and here its a gf2, so games r waaay better at home... which is a shame cause here at work we have adsl which is mint for bf! :) )

[mird-OC]

for straight up no-nonsense raw power and stability you can't beat a P4/Xeon RDRAM setup. that's what i'd buy if i had bucketloads of money (it will be mine, oh yes, it wil be mine).

for the home user AMD setups are without a doubt (clockspeed figures aside) the best bang-for-buck you can get, which is why i have two of them :)

there is really only one gripe i have about AMD - HEAT - but i can deal with that :)

and there is really only one gripe i have about intel - PRICE - unfortunately i can't deal with that :(

[mashimaro]

Originally posted by mird-OC
and there is really only one gripe i have about intel - PRICE - unfortunately i can't deal with that :(

This msg is not saying Intel or AMD which is better kinda thing but there is something i don't understand .. Most people says they get AMD to OC bcoz they're poor and can't afford the high pice Intel or bang for buck kinda thing.


Now... most ppl that uses AMD would get a decent HSF such as Volcano 7+ for example, a decent PSU, extra case fans, artic silver thermal paste, copper plate between the CPU & HSF. when u add all of those things up, the costs is about the same as the high price Intel .. if not more .. ? Because some of us would invest water cooling as well.. ]]

So.. is cost a main reason ?

[Grrr!!]

Mashimaro:

Firstly all the gear you mentioned will last for quite a few generations of CPU, so the price is recoverable. Secondly there is the g33k factor, which is probably the most important thing to remember in this case.
Thirdly, you still really do need case fans and the like with an intel system.

[Blitzkrieg]

the p4's put out as much heat if not more than the tbreds.

[varkk]

My P4 1.8 is sitting at about 43 running folding@home it is at stock with stock cooling. My main heat problem is my mobo. If anyone else out there has a SiS 648 chipset mobo, look to get some cooling on both the north and south bridges, my north has a passive HS, while the south has nothing, and under intense disk usage it heats up significantly.

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg
the p4's put out as much heat if not more than the tbreds.
well actually clock for clock the P4s generate less heat. a P4 2.0Ghz puts out 52W where as an XP2400+ (2.0GHz) puts out 60W. a P4 2.2GHz puts out 55W, compared to a XP2600+ (2.13Ghz) producing 62W.

infact XP PR vs P4 Clock, an XP2600+ and a P4 2.6GHz generate the same amount of heat.

but that's kinda beside the point since the vast majority of AMD CPUs out there are 0.18 micron.

[RTY]

I currently run an Athlon TBird 1.3 and I really miss SSE instructions because the software I use is SSE enhanced. When I go over to a mates house who has an Athlon XP his computer runs twice the plugins mine does. (basically same platform etc)

Normally I wouldn't think about marketing crap like SSE but I tell you dudes if your applications are optimized...software costs way more than hardware these days...

I'm not going to make that same mistake again. I'm going Pentium 4 cos it's the only one with SSE 2 (I think).

It all comes down to what you want to do (it's a Cliché). Every chip has it's place. I reckon Itanium will be OK, everyone bagged the Pentium Pro for its cost and performance ratio but its architecture ruled for a long time...

If I wanted a mini fanless box to sit next to my TV and record programs with ATI card then I'd get a P4 1.6!!!

All about what you want to do.

Take care everyone

[Blitzkrieg]

um intel quotes "tdp" or something like that
and amd quotes "mtdp" or something like that
they are different things
u cant compare them like that
amd states the max
intel states the avg

read an article on it somewhere, they are alot closer than ppl think

err sse2 makes up to a 5-10% boost at most
i think id rather look at performance than wether it has "sse2"
or something else like that

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg
um intel quotes "tdp" or something like that
and amd quotes "mtdp" or something like that
they are different things
u cant compare them like that
amd states the max
intel states the avg

read an article on it somewhere, they are alot closer than ppl think
i got my numbers from here:

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm

[Byteme]

i think they're just doin that to hide the fact that they dont want any of their cpu's to be compared by the home shopper because everyone buys pc out of word of mouth or internet (almost i think;-) )

[SecretSquirrel]

Crap, the average home buyer goes into a retail outlet and sees a price that looks reasonable, no matter the PC attached to it, and pays it.

Hence the almighty power of Compaq, HP and PC Company...despite how amazingly terrible their products are.

Word of mouth counts for probably 1/2 the market, but then again, that may be an exaggeration.