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joeflies256
11-04-2006, 11:59 AM
I know there are probably a number of threads started with regards to this sort of thing but I was hoping that someone might share some of their experiences so I could resolve this matter....?

I sold a The Rolling Stones - Singles Collection to some guy of Trademe. The guy replied fairly quickly after my initial email.

His email was this:
"Hi there, payment will go thru Thurs/Fri.
Regards Barry"

Based on his previous feed back I thought I would get this over and done with in a hurry. So I sent off the CDs in good faith the same day.
The auction completed on the 28th February and I have still not been paid. I have since asked Trademe to do something about it and all they did was refunded my success fee and said I should submit bad feedback on the member.

Interestingly this guy has since completed a number of other auctions and has still not replied to any of my emails or responded to the negative feedback I have placed.

I would be happy to pay for him to post the goods back to me at my cost if he no longer wants them but he hasn’t replied to that either…

Anyway to cut a long story short I feel ripped off, although only some cd’s short and $31.25 out of pocket….

Does anyone have any advice or experience with this kind of thing?

joshr
11-04-2006, 12:09 PM
Word of advice, NEVER send goods before you have received payment, things like this end up happening ... and I doubt you will get your money, common sense really.

ColinPowell
11-04-2006, 12:31 PM
I don't know if I agree with joshr. I'm a fan of sorting out the little purchases as soon as I know that the buyer is confirmed. I haven't been burnt, but I guess I would be weary if I had. Although this doesn't really help the situation, it is a valuable 2 cents added.

Sumo
11-04-2006, 12:49 PM
If the payment has been made, you can always make a complaint to the Police. I also agreed with the above and suggest never to send stuff without the money in hand.

joeflies256
11-04-2006, 12:49 PM
Word of advice, NEVER send goods before you have received payment, things like this end up happening ... and I doubt you will get your money, common sense really.

Yes that would be common sense, but based on his previous feedback and the fact that I wanted to get the process underway quickly I sent off in 'good faith' so to speak.

What annoys me is that I have had no response from the buyer, and it appears to be blatantly a case of dishonesty as he has since made comments to other auctions well after this one…

KingJackal
11-04-2006, 12:54 PM
Yeah, never send stuff without payment. I've done that... once :p.

In my case I lost $50 back when I was at Uni, which hurt - but realistically there's nothing you can do. Turned out the guy that shafted me had won a whole bunch of auctions that week, so he had obviously just sold a few small things for feedback, then won a ton of auctions, got as many goods as possible then ran. I doubt his details etc on the Trademe site were real at all, and chances are good the address to send to was his flat before he moved out. Etc etc.

You may just have to suck it up and learn your lesson, hard as it is.

But out of curiousity, do you have the details for said member? If they're my side of Christchurch, I could always go visit for sh1ts and giggles... ;o

mpc
11-04-2006, 01:21 PM
Sign up here (http://www.scambusters.co.nz/forum/). They deal with TradeMe scammers and dishonest people. Just in case this has happened to other people or someone has the traders details from previous trades post a message in the TradeMe general message board.

ktulu
11-04-2006, 01:44 PM
Do you still have his address? If so, let's have a competition to see who can do the worst thing to said person (once you post his address here for all to see). Personally, I'd just keep mailing him pipe bombs... but I think that is against most couriers EULA's :D

_N_
11-04-2006, 01:46 PM
I too have sent things before I got the money, but only to people with 100 or more positive feedback and always got the money in the end.
There isn't much you can do, just place bad feedback and ask for your trademe fee back and keep on emailing the person.

carlito
11-04-2006, 02:31 PM
You could take him to small claims court since you have his postal address this shouldn't be too hard.

But like lots of things in life it sounds like you've learnt a hard leson.
Never assume people will act in good faith.

I held shipment of an auction for over 7 days last week because I hadn't received payment. Turned out the reason I hadn't seen the payment is because National Bank suck (true story lol) and deposits done at a physical branch wont show up in my online statements for a number of days.

I risked getting bad feedback but at the end of the day you are better safe than sorry.

Plus you are far more likely to hear from someone who hasn't paid if they haven't yet received the goods :)

joeflies256
11-04-2006, 03:06 PM
If there is a problem with this please remove.

Cut from my email.

"From: mike power

Delivery is 1/82 Bill Her**** St, Pirimai, Napier
Regards Barry"

That is the address he told me to send the CDs to...

mArk2
11-04-2006, 03:28 PM
Just ask the question in one of his open auctions.

heads_up
11-04-2006, 04:31 PM
Why dont u track him down cos you have his address u sent it to, or contact the police and tell them to send someone around as it is theft.

Will Hunt
11-04-2006, 06:36 PM
police wont touch it. If you make a contract to sell something, and the buyer takes the goods, but doesn't pay, its a civil matter to be settled through the courts.

I found that out the hard way when we agreed to sell our campervan for something, with them paying us in monthly installments. They ran off with the van (worth $1500) screwing us in the process.

We were living in Aucks and they were in matamata. When we finally managed to get down there, about 4 months later, the police told us to essentially bugger off. We had to retrieve the vechial ourselfs, which was trashed with parts missing (which had been sold). All we could do was tow it (it was no longer running) away and sell it to someone else as a shell for about $250, and recouped another $200 from parts.

scuzzy
11-04-2006, 09:31 PM
police wont touch it. If you make a contract to sell something, and the buyer takes the goods, but doesn't pay, its a civil matter to be settled through the courts
Not quite. The police were being lazy. You're right - it's not Theft. But it is considered "Obtaining by deception", if you were deceived as to their intent to pay you - which is a criminal, not civil matter. Regardless, you could have taken them to small claims court in Auckland.

CRIMES ACT 1961
[PART 10] - [CRIMES AGAINST RIGHTS OF PROPERTY]
[Crimes involving deceit]
[240. Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception—

(1)Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,—

(a)obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or

(b)in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or

(c)induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or

(d)causes loss to any other person.

(2)In this section, ``deception'' means—

(a)a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and—

(i)knows that it is false in a material particular; or

(ii)is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or

(b)an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or

(c)a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person.

FlyingAttackSquirrel
12-04-2006, 12:18 AM
I nearly got caught in a reverse thing.
I had a couple of Nokia routers that weren't working given to me. Had them repaired (firmware issues) kept one for myself and sold another one.
Had it paid for and sent it off. Posted positive feedback about the guy, and had positive feedback posted about me. Saying I was good to deal with etc. well packaged item.
Then I get an email about 6 weeks later asking if I have sent the item. ??? I think. Reply that I had sent it and that feedback had been posted saying it was well packaged, so he must have got it, or did he have the people involved wrong.
No reply for a couple of days. Then I get a phone call from the guy. (I have an unusual last name so I am not the hardest to track down) Asking where it was, and if I didn't give him his money back he would call the police. He got really aggressive, and I basically told him I was not willing to talk to him again, and he could email me. I believe that he received the item. and it worked for a month or so, and either the firmware died again (Which I doubt as mine is working 2 years after it was fixed) but more likely he ****ed around with some of the settings and couldn't fix it.
I do have other bad feed back. Some of which is deserved, some isn't. Unfortunately so many people are so petty that they post tit for tat feedback. And think they are going to die or the world will stop spinning if they get a bad feedback.

BorgWarner
12-04-2006, 08:19 AM
Must be this guy! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=1414173

grrrrrr

joeflies256
12-04-2006, 09:20 AM
Must be this guy! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=1414173

grrrrrr

Yeah that’s him. Notice how he has really good feedback up until mine?

Really bizarre but you would think he would respond to his only negative feedback?

ColinPowell
12-04-2006, 10:53 AM
But out of curiousity, do you have the details for said member? If they're my side of Christchurch, I could always go visit for sh1ts and giggles... ;o

KJ, the enforcer. I'd be shake'n in my boots.

KingJackal
12-04-2006, 11:14 AM
KJ, the enforcer. I'd be shake'n in my boots.

Sif enforcer. But it's normally immensely helpful to talk to people face to face to find out the situation. Plus having somebody standing on their doorstep is likely to give them the 'no use hiding' fright. The point isn't to bash them up or anything, it's to get their attention, and prick their concience. Most people still treat the internet as if at the end of the day they're anonymous, as if at the end of the day they don't have the same responsibilities over what they do as they would IRL. It doesn't take too much to remind them that's not the case ;).

joeflies256
13-04-2006, 01:16 PM
Tradme have still not replied to my last email I sent them. Its been two days now. I just re-highlighted the fact that this member had not paid me for the goods I had sent and that he has made comments to other auctions he has played part in.

It seems strange to me you can still trade despite not providing feedback to a previous auction that has gone bad like this. It seems to me that there is nothing to stop the oposite from happening, whereby being a buyer and paying for somthing and not getting sent what you paid for or getting nothing at all.

Way back when trademe first started I won an auction for a full computer system. It was around $300.00 at the time and was only a Pentium II from memory. Anyway it took over 3 months to get everything I had been calling the lady seller every couple of days and you could just tell from her tone that she was trying to rip me off, eventually she stopped taking my calls and then a week later from this time the computer turned up. It was nothing like what it had been advertised....

I didn't take this any further at the time, perhaps I should have but I just didn't have the time.

I didn't use Trademe for quite sometime after that expereince...you can't trust anyone.

mpc
14-04-2006, 02:53 PM
Tradme have still not replied to my last email I sent them. Its been two days now. I just re-highlighted the fact that this member had not paid me for the goods I had sent and that he has made comments to other auctions he has played part in.

I hate to tell you this but unless the police come knocking Tardme won't do anything. Unless more people have been ripped off by this trader then the Police won't get involved either.

For Tardme to close a users account it normally takes 3-4 bad feedbacks in a short period of time. Even then it comes down to the discretion of the Tardeme staff member dealing with the case.

joeflies256
10-05-2006, 09:49 AM
FYI

A few weeks back I got this reply from TradeMe.

Dear Joseph,

Thanks for contacting us.

Thank you for filing a report about this member. I have looked into their
membership and have noted your complaint against their record. I am sorry
that you are experiencing trouble with this member.

Please continue trying to email them as they may have a legitimate reason
for the delay in sending the payment. Hopefully the feedback you placed on
their membership will spur them into action and alert other members to
take precautions.

In the future please be careful who you trade with and to help safe guard
yourself please consider using SafeTrader. For more information on
SafeTrader please see the link at the top of the Trade Me website.

I hope that this matter can be resolved quickly.

If you have any further questions or if I can be of any further help
please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards,
****
Trade Me Support

I cannot see why Trademe cannot just enforce a suspension on this members privileges until: a) He pays me, b) sends back the goods or c) provide any form of feedback…(Acceptable) e.g. it was lost in the mail, anything. Therefore Trademe could determine the intent of any member. If chooses not to respond to Trademe then it is fair to say he is up to no good and will re-offend if given the opportunity...

whetu
10-05-2006, 10:46 AM
trademe is all care and no responsibility. To expect them to impose suspensions etc is to expect them to employ an army of moderators - something I dont expect they'll be keen on sinking money into when they've already provided you with a good safety net - namely safetrader. Dont use safetrader? that's your problem.

plus, really, put yourself in the other guy's shoes "oh noes I have been suspended! let's just see here... click click click voila, new trademe account"

<spock>Your idea is emotively based so is therefore illogical</spock>

MercuryFree
10-05-2006, 06:28 PM
I cannot see why Trademe cannot just enforce a suspension on this members privileges until: a) He pays me, b) sends back the goods or c) provide any form of feedback…(Acceptable) e.g. it was lost in the mail, anything. Therefore Trademe could determine the intent of any member. If chooses not to respond to Trademe then it is fair to say he is up to no good and will re-offend if given the opportunity...
Well they can't just run around going "BANNZOR", because you could be lying for example, or, as already stated, there could be a legitimate reason

Hands
30-09-2006, 10:22 PM
I also have had problems the same as you. Sent the same email but instead I won an auction and never reived the goods. I suggest you make this trader your favourite and everytime they try to sell something post a question with a statement of bad feedback letting other buyers know not to buy from this trader. I will be ringing consumer institute on Monday to find out what we can do and where trademe's responsibilities lie and I will post a response here to let you know.:)

Hands
30-09-2006, 10:24 PM
Do not trade with the following trader as she does not send the goods. Just look at her feedback it is not very good. the-grays

heads_up
30-09-2006, 10:32 PM
What if her family is really sick? if they were in hosiptal, how would u feel then after giving them **** about a pink shirt? My god.... some people

ktulu
01-10-2006, 12:01 AM
What if her family is really sick? if they were in hosiptal, how would u feel then after giving them **** about a pink shirt? My god.... some people
Meh... what goes around, comes around.

Tojja
02-10-2006, 09:15 AM
My gf's mum sold 2 x U2 tickets about 6 weeks ago - auction finished and she sent the buyer an email with bank details. The next day her mother (my gf's grandma) passed away, and life was turned upside down for a week or so, as you can imagine.

The person that bought and had paid for the tickets become (understandably) worried when there was no response, and started sending increasingly irate emails the day after she made the trasnfer.

Gf's Mum's boss replied to the lady on her behalf telling her that she was away on leave and would get back to her asap.

She finally returned to work a week later (the day after funeral) to see emails threatening her that she would be reported to police etc etc, including very aggressive negative feedback.

Record was finally set straight, tickets sent off and the purchaser retracted feedback (and felt terrible about situation), but the point is that on some occassions there are genuine reasons for delays...

Vaelo
02-10-2006, 11:02 AM
i can say that billherc0ck street is a real street

If there is a problem with this please remove.

Cut from my email.

"From: mike power

Delivery is 1/82 Bill Her**** St, Pirimai, Napier
Regards Barry"

That is the address he told me to send the CDs to...

scuzzy
02-10-2006, 11:11 AM
A very tolerant workplace that doesn't mind people using office resources for Trademe...and also a bit sneaky in checking and replying to her emails for her?? Surely you'd run your Trademe stuff from a personal email account at least.

joeflies256
02-10-2006, 11:17 AM
Well they can't just run around going "BANNZOR", because you could be lying for example, or, as already stated, there could be a legitimate reason

I think a ban in my case would have been quite feasible it’s not a simple case of “I could be lying” because the other member has not replied to myself and trademe… despite the fact he is still trading and replying to questions on his own auctions etc…If he has the time to respond there he has the time to respond to me/trademe.

If he was sick etc… he would have said so and everything would have been fine, yet he has still not paid for the goods that according to me he should have received…If he did not receive them he should reply and say so, and then I would follow up with NZ Post.

Anyway all it means is now I do not send goods off until full payment is received. Common sense but it is unfortunate that you cannot trust some people. I like to treat people in the same way I like to be treated in return…

Will Hunt
02-10-2006, 04:18 PM
im pretty sure people have dones this, have not been paid, and posted on ocnz before.

Debtfree
18-03-2007, 03:39 PM
I sold a The Rolling Stones - Singles Collection to some guy of Trademe.

Based on his previous feed back I thought I would get this over and done with in a hurry. So I sent off the CDs in good faith the same day.
The auction completed on the 28th February and I have still not been paid.

Anyway to cut a long story short I feel ripped off, although only some cd’s short and $31.25 out of pocket….

Does anyone have any advice or experience with this kind of thing?

Hi Joefiles, perhaps the harder lessons of "life" are learnt in the 'school of hard knocks' If anyone went online a wanted a brand new latest Game machine that they could "Overclock" badly, and gave the shop there address details ... do you think the shop would send the goods? Unfortunatly you got caught...this time. Tm is a fantastic place to Buy Sell and ...Swap! Just be careful and lern the lesson to move on!

From another Happy TM trader.:cool:

AgrAde
18-03-2007, 08:18 PM
i've received over $2000 worth of items bought from online computer stores before my payments have cleared.

ignoring that fact, it's a completely different situation. did you really feel it was necessary to bring up a post from 5 months ago just to annoy the original poster, and add nothing at all to the thread?

leachim
18-03-2007, 09:26 PM
Ya learn by your mistakes eh. Don't let it put you off trademe though, it is still a good place to buy and sell, unfortunatly there are a few people that ruin it for others. Ive never had a bad experience using trademe, but thats not to say I don't expect one.

Ragnor
19-03-2007, 06:35 AM
Never send anything before being paid, lesson learned?

Requiem.trigger
19-03-2007, 10:03 PM
If you don't use safe trader, you have no right to complain that TradeMe should be doing more. Simply put, TradeMe is a business. It does not have the man power to be enforcing its many thousand users, nor could it afford to hire for this.

Unfortunately, there are people in this country/world, who will take advantage of those among us who are more trusting of people we know.

Simple solution:
-Don't trust ANYONE that you don't know.
-Use safetrader, ALWAYS
-Don't get angry if a user fails to respond to emails, but most definately be persistent. You can't tell what is going on in someones life, it may be something out of their control, they may not be in any rational state of mind, and able to think to contact you and explain the situation.
-Don't think that TradeMe will ban/suspend, or even assist you in tracking down Con-artists. They don't have the legal obligation, nor the moral depth to do so.

Buyer/Seller BEWARE.

Mevunky
19-03-2007, 10:09 PM
Let.this.thread.die.plz

Where is that wheelbarrow.

Requiem.trigger
20-03-2007, 03:13 PM
yes, let it die

Mevunky
20-03-2007, 05:41 PM
yes, let it die

Please refrain from spamming our forum to hell.

Sorry about this post, but I feel the need to exercise the wheelbarrow.