your opinion on these monitors

[matthew]

So i need a monitor to go with that soon to be built for the first time system. I'm looking for a black one if possible. Since it's going to be used for web design i need it to the best quality i can afford.. i have found these but i don't know much about them

two dell models (http://www.computerdisposals.co.nz/store/cart_detail.asp?prod_cat1=Monitors)
(the 19" & the 21" below it)

is that 19" just a repackaged sony? "trinitron"?

19" ibm (http://www.opc.com.au/IBM/catau.nsf/$PartNumberLookup/66344AS)

another dell 19" but cheaper (http://www.computerdisposals.com.au/store/cart_detail.asp?prod_cat1=Monitors)

anybody used one of these before or know anything about the quality of them?:confused:

[matthew]

o.k it looks like i'll probably be going for the "Dell 21inch Flat Display Trinitron" after adding gst and costs for shipping to my door.. $1,624.50 :eek: oh well i'll just have to scale back the rest of my system to cut some costs.. i figure since i'm going to design on it.. i should spend a little more on a 21" ...good price?


Any objections? :) .... anyone?:(

a reveiw of this monitor is here > http://www.mikhailtech.com/articles/displays/directron21crt/

[Scorched]

The Dell 21" is a nice screen, Hooked one up the other weekend during a deployment. Nice a light compared to other 21" moniter as well.

[KingJackal]

Lol man, you can spend $1600 INC GST on a good 19". Mmmmmm Viewsonic P95F..... mmmmm.....

D@mn what I wouldn't give for a couple of those babies on my rig! *drools*

Yeah - anything 'Trinitron' is a re-badged Sony monitor. So basically a flat screen ( which is good ;) ).

[paul rhee]

sony G420 all the way.. but DELL uses same CRT so why not dell..

[AcurA]

I got a 21" dell D1626HT - trinitron screen. VERY nice. Took a while to get used to the damper wires though.... hehhehe

[matthew]

:) i was originally going for the veiwsonic p95.. $755 @dragonpc :)

[Humantuckshop]

Hmm, how about a Samsung 955D 19" Flatscreen?

Specs here: http://www.samsung.com.au/samsung.asp?cat=51&obj=325

Price here: http://www.oemcomputers.co.nz/oemparts.htm

$827 incl GST.

[matthew]

hmmmm not bad at all........

yeah... the price increase from 15-17-19 is similar but then when you go up to 21" dong!! :mad: wtf?

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by matthew
:) i was originally going for the veiwsonic p95.. $755 @dragonpc :)

Do you mean the E95? :confused:

Cos the P95F IS NOT THAT CHEAP.

*looks at sites*

hmmm - looks like it's stopped being listed in the last month or so ( only Tastech listed it, @ $1600 ). Nobody in ChCh seems to list it anymore :(.

D@MN fine screen though - 1920x1440 @ 77Hz! *drools*

Though the P90F does 1920x1440 @ 73Hz, so that seems like a better trade of performance and 1337n3z vs price. Of course - nobody in ChCh seems to sell that either.

Basically, all the good ChCh stores have stopped even listing the high-end monitors. I suppose they just don't sell enough to bother.

Though I still dream of dually 24" widescreens - I remember seeing a review of one ( Illyama, I believe ) that could do 2048x1536 @ 100Hz or something equally 1337.... mmmm - imagine the multitasking on a couple of those, BWAhahahaaa...
:D

*damn - would look at me, there I go, <RANT>ing on again...*
:eek: :rolleyes:

[matthew]

woops....yeah i did mean the e95....:o

hmmmmm...... decisions.. decisions..:confused:

[Cyrax]

All nice screens.

How about these babys?

http://www.9xmedia.com/pages-Build_a_system/X-Top_Expert---5_over_5.html

[mird-OC]

have you thought about getting dual 19"s instead of a single 21"? duallies are much better value for money IMO.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by mird-OC
have you thought about getting dual 19"s instead of a single 21"? duallies are much better value for money IMO.

Now THERE'S a good suggestion! :D

What graphics card again? Ti4200? ( In which case DEFINATELY Leadtek ) Radeon 8500?

[RockBoy]

Pats PT795
yeah the viewsonics are nice
now all i need is another one to go beside it damn it i cant bring myself to get anything less than this now grrr

but yeah 2 X 19" is the way to go for sure

RB

[matthew]

How about these babys?

http://www.9xmedia.com/pages-Build_...--5_over_5.html

:eek:

to be honest i don't actually know who the whole dual monitor thing works?


the more i read the more i like that dell 21"....

and i will be using the matrox 450 16mb..blah blah..display card...:D

[mird-OC]

dual monitors is a very simple affair these days. just buy two monitors, a dualhead video card, plug em in, install the drivers, and you're away :)

most newer ATI cards, Matrox cards and nVidia GF4 Ti are dualhead... in workstation situations matrox are usually used since they have great image quality and basically pioneered dualhead technology so they have very matured drivers. some of the GF4 Ti cards apparently image quality equal to or better than matrox's current line of aging video cards (they recently announced their new card but it's a wee bit on the expensive side), although their drivers aren't anywhere near as matured. the ATI cards have very good image quality and reasonably matured drivers.

the matrox G450 comes in a dualhead flavour and is a great card to use.

[matthew]

well i have decided to go for a 21" and then probably get a 15" :D :D :D

but someone suggested that i go for this instead of the dell.

what do you think?

http://www.cadalyst.com/reviews/hardware/0901monitor/hitachi.htm

http://www.hitachidisplays.com/products/21_827_828.htm



it's arournd the same price. but only beige in NZ no black!:mad:

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by mird-OC
dual monitors is a very simple affair these days. just buy two monitors, a dualhead video card, plug em in, install the drivers, and you're away :)

most newer ATI cards, Matrox cards and nVidia GF4 Ti are dualhead... in workstation situations matrox are usually used since they have great image quality and basically pioneered dualhead technology so they have very matured drivers. some of the GF4 Ti cards apparently image quality equal to or better than matrox's current line of aging video cards (they recently announced their new card but it's a wee bit on the expensive side), although their drivers aren't anywhere near as matured. the ATI cards have very good image quality and reasonably matured drivers.

the matrox G450 comes in a dualhead flavour and is a great card to use.

Yeah. Having recently tried both nVIDA nVIEW and ATi Hydravision ( their multi-out software ), I can say the ATi software is better ATM by a nose.

However, there are features the nVIDIA software has that I miss in the ATi software and vice-versa. I would rank them equally on features actually, but the ATi drivers are just easier to set up and tweak with.

...still haven't tried Matrox dual-out on my rig :(. Though given that I could suggest multiple areas for both the nVIDIA and ATi drivers to improve, there's a very good chance the more matured Matrox software would just whip them.

Basically, the nVIDIA and ATi drivers ATM are just too 'sparse'. They lack modes, they lack shortcut key options, they just LACK. Here's to hoping things will keep getting better :)

[matthew]

well even though it isn't black :mad: :mad: i am leaning towards the hitachi - it has a higher res/ refresh rates and .21 thingie compared .24 on the trinitron. < shadow mask >

anyone had any hitachi stuff? reliable name ?

[mird-OC]

HITACHI SUCKY MOTOR!!! :p

erm, yes they're pretty good... their monitors are very good. you can't go wrong with them IMO.

[Elle T]

If you haven't already decided these look nice,
I'm thinking of getting the 17" version but waiting on the price
http://www.viewsonic.com/images/IMG_p95fb_med.jpg

Linkage (http://www.viewsonic.com/products/crt_p95fplusb.htm)

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by matthew
well even though it isn't black :mad: :mad: i am leaning towards the hitachi - it has a higher res/ refresh rates and .21 thingie compared .24 on the trinitron. < shadow mask >

anyone had any hitachi stuff? reliable name ?

Make sure you're comparing the same 'thingy'.

Dot pitch horizontal vs. Dot pitch horizontal
Dot pitch vertical vs. Dot pitch vertical
Dot pitch diagonal vs. Dot pitch diagonal

...and yes, it does make a difference ;).

[matthew]

I have not seen a 19/21" version of that vewisonic anywhere in NZ, actually i have seen no black veiwsonics in NZ.

hmmm.

well the hitachi is better quality from looking at all the specs, it also takes less room and less power, although i was leaning towards the hitachi eariler i have now double checked - the lady sent me the quote/total without gst... so it is actually $1550 without gst and without shipping :(

that dell is $1624 inc gst and shipping to my door.

not so clear cut now i guess...... :confused:
if i want that extra quality i'm gonna have to pay quite a bit extra for it...

[Elle T]

its a 19" also there is another black Viewsonic Model but i don't think its flatscreen.

I'm waiting to hear back if its avaible & cost in NZ i'll post up when i do.

[AcurA]

i currently have 3 - 21" Dells @ home - 2 Dell P1110 and my old Trusty D1626HT - The P1110 are crystal clear... definetely crsiper than my 1626. Wonder how the P1130 stacks up... mind boggles.
BTW i'm selling one of my P1110 here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?id=1284933).

[matthew]

don't have that baby in a black do you? :D

[AcurA]

how bout kewl beige with a spray can??? LOL....
Shame really - would look great in black....

[matthew]

hmmm those "lines" that i am hearing about on these dell monitors are starting to put me off?

i mean, horizontal lines on the screen wtf? :confused:

[RockBoy]

Hey matthew check out my rant here

http://forums.overclockers.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=370

basically all flat screens will have those lines

RB

[matthew]

well i guess it's pretty small but i mean when your paying this much for a monitor it needs to be perfect and i think that it would actually annoy me.especially since i'll be designing on it...it makes the hitachi look better and better....:confused:

[RockBoy]

but if its a flat screen it will have those wires ???!??!



regardless of brand and trust me it wont get annoying i looked at mine 18 hours a day for 1 1/2 years as i did my thesis it was no biggie go look at some in some shops

and those lines are perfect there 100% designed to be there its what enables it to be perfect flat
RB

[matthew]

i don't think the hitachi is a flat..

i will have to see if i can find any of these dell 21 inchers or at least similar 21" FD in CHCH to check out and compare......

[KingJackal]

I'm with RB. Any serious designers DO you flatscreens. The two wires ( reeeaaaally small - you have to appreciate how many milli-seconds it takes to adjust ) FAR outweight the bulge.

Consider this.

Every image on a non-flat CRT is distorted. It is! It's always stretched outwards! NO self-respecting CAD user would settle for a screen that distorts EVERY straight line! :eek:

That may sound somewhat anal, but if you're that serious about the quality of a monitor, it's an issue.

I've used both true-flats and normal screens. Mine is normal, PURELY because I'm not fortunate enough to afford a true-flat ( bum student :rolleyes: ). I would almost swap my 19" for a similar spec'd true-flat 17". And I would definately take a true-flat 19" over a bubble 21" of the same frequency/dotpitch/res/etc specs. I'm soooo wanting my next screen to be a true flat.

Having said that, if for some reason you are worried about it, GO TRY ONE!! After all, YOUR eyes are the authoritative judge. If you want to know where they hang out - try a CAD workshop....
;)

[matthew]

you have to appreciate how many milli-seconds it takes to adjust

the wires can be be adjusted?.. they can go bye bye? :) :confused:

[AcurA]

Nope... my understanding was that trinitron screens have those damper wires - being a feature of perfect flat screens is news to me... but Rb & KJ prolly confirmed that :)

as far a being anoying - nope not @ all. Sure makes no diff in the middle of heavy fire in UT lol

[RockBoy]

By adjustment KJ means that YOU will adjust to them so quickly that its not funny

If its a toss up between a flat screen and none flat screen sell your first born for the flatscreen!!!

i did ;)


RB

[Maverick]

Originally posted by RockBoy
By adjustment KJ means that YOU will adjust to them so quickly that its not funny

If its a toss up between a flat screen and none flat screen sell your first born for the flatscreen!!!

i did ;)
RB

LOL. I remember perfectly well RB, -the salesman from Campus Computers saying "Go on, take it home. Try it out for size."
And you so innocently agreeing. No way that was EVER going back after that!:rolleyes:

[matthew]

anyone know where i can find more pictures of these trinitron lines in action? like a full screen shot or something...


-----------------------------Comparison--------------------------------


specs (http://www.hitachidisplays.com/products/19_721F.htm) Hitachi beige MH721F 19" all up :: $1150

specs (http://www.computerdisposals.co.nz/store/cart_detail.asp?prod_cat1=Monitors) Dell black 21" fd trinitron all up :: $1624 :)

specs (http://www.hitachidisplays.com/products/21_827_828.htm) Hitachi beige MH828 21" all up :: $2040


[ hitachi = 3yr warrenty ] :)
[ dell = 1yr warrenty ]

[ hitachi = white ]
[ dell = black ] :) :)

[ hitachi = no lines ] :)
[ dell = lines ]

[ hitachi = higher resolutions and refresh rates ] :)
[ dell = lower " " ]

[ hitachi = 0.21horizontal, 0.14 vertical ] :)
[ dell = .0.24 horizontal, ? vertical ]

[ hitachi = less weight, room & power ] :)
[ dell = more " " ]


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[AcurA]

Originally posted by matthew
anyone know where i can find more pictures of these lines on screen?

u saying my picture was shyte???? lol :( :D

[matthew]

just want more to compare... and full screenshots.. they all seem to vary quite alot this one here is apparently taken with a high quality digital camera from an ibm P260 (21" trinitron) ( using a fully white screen calibrated to standard Windows gamma, )

[AcurA]

u really want to go have a look @ one... must have a shop around that'll have one???

[matthew]

nope.. :(

[AcurA]

pitty u're not in auck... u'd be most welcome to see my ones.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by matthew
anyone know where i can find more pictures of these trinitron lines in action? like a full screen shot or something...


A full screen shot? Yeah - sure. Press the 'Print Screen' button on your keyboard. Open paintbrush, then presh 'Ctrl' + 'v' ;). Seriously, no point giving a full-screen shot. You wouldn't see them. Even for a 2048x1536 photo of one, the line would probably be less than a pixel high, so it may not register. There's a reason those line pics are so zoomed in ;).

Put it this way:

I put up with Windows XP. Sure it's better than Win95 - BUT IT BOOTS SLOWER!! OK, yeah - so Win XP is more expensive for good reason, and nobody in their right mind would pick Win95 over WinXP - BUT IT BOOTS SLOWER!! How much slower? I don't know - I haven't tried Win95 on this rig. Hmmm....

....I think I'll have to try Win95 to make sure that I don't want to go back. After all, if the boot time really is that good, just imagine!!

OK, so that analogy ( like most ) does differ in a few ways from your situation. But my point being sometimes you have to sacrifice really small insignificant details in order to gain big improvements. Sometimes, there's just no way around it.

I'm one of the people that don't take back copies of WinXP ( "cos it crash for me" ), and don't take back perfectly good flatscreens ( "cos it's got a itty bitty L|n3z0r" ). But then, I can overlook the small niggles and see the potential ;).

BTW, if you want - just buy the 21" true-flat. If you don't like it, I'll let you swap it with my 19" bubble, AND I'LL PAY POSTAGE!! Imagine that for a deal!! :D

[matthew]

well i'm putting up with my old ibm :D and i generally would'nt be that fussy over a little line that i can hardly see, but the prob is that i don't really want to buy it without seeing these lines for myself 1st just in case to be sure since i'm paying $1600..

I guess the other option as some of you suggested earlier is going for duals. well i thought i'd get this dell and then just get a cheap 15" possibly 17" later and use that for all the application toolbars and sh_t that get in the way. but if i am considering the hitachi 21" -$2000 then it seems also that getting the two hitachi 19 inchers for the same price is worth looking into.
this hitachi 19" does 1600*1200 at 75hz though .. is this really high enough? in saying that it has a . 0.20 mm horizontal dot pitch & 0.13 mm vertical dot pitch :eek:

also are there any drawbacks in using dual monitors(apart from double the power) ? does it ummm take more resources, memory or anything? does it cause the screens to judder or similar?

[AcurA]

last time i tried dual monitor setup was on an old mx card - 3D games did suffer a lil... haven't tried with the Gf4. I'd prolly switch back to single monitor for gaming - something i don't really want to do all the time. The 2 - 21" setup i'm running now takes a hell of a lot of desk space... and i got a big A. desk! Also the remote desktop software i'm running from the lappy in the lounge (... don't ask... lol) doesn't like span desktops. In a nut shell i'm not worried bout sticking to one CRT - 21" gives ample real state!
my 2c worth....

[Geek4Life]

Originally posted by KingJackal


A full screen shot? Yeah - sure. Press the 'Print Screen' button on your keyboard. Open paintbrush, then presh 'Ctrl' + 'v' ;). Seriously, no point giving a full-screen shot. You wouldn't see them. Even for a 2048x1536 photo of one, the line would probably be less than a pixel high, so it may not register. There's a reason those line pics are so zoomed in ;).
Hmmm, yeah that's gonna work. Last I knew a screen shot like that only took what the video card was outputting, not crap that's on the monitor. ;)

[AcurA]

he was being scarki...

[matthew]

you can notice it in this pic ? well at least i think that is what the 2 lines i see is :confused: maybe something else? photo...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/298203_full.jpg

[Geek4Life]

I haven't noticed any lines on my 17" flatscreen. :confused:

[AcurA]

Originally posted by matthew
you can notice it in this pic ? well at least i think that is what the 2 lines i see is :confused: maybe something else? photo...
....


Dunno how i did that one.... i though it could be the damper wires but then u'd see 2 - and only one seem to be visible. Just a glitch IMO - i guaranty u that u would not be able to see them lines @ that distance.... not with a blue background - u might have a chance with white. If u got a background pic - tis more like 15cm from the screen.

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by Geek4Life
I haven't noticed any lines on my 17" flatscreen. :confused:

If there are no lines then it's probably a flatscreen - not a TRUE-FLAT screen.

And yes, just to further keep n00B's confused, there IS a difference.... :(

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by matthew
you can notice it in this pic ? well at least i think that is what the 2 lines i see is :confused: maybe something else? photo...

Something else - let me explain a mo...

OK, so you know that CRT monitors have an electron beam that 'writes out' rows of pixels by selectively heating up the phosphors in a matrix ( at the front of the tube ). It scans across the line, heating up the phosphors and causing them to glow, then it drops down and takes the next line.

However, once glowing the phosphors lose all the energy the beam gave them, and start to cool down - that why when you turn off your screen, it slowly fades black ( the phophor mask cooling down ).

Now, that bright line is the last line to be 'written' by the electron gun. That's why it's brighter - the phosphors have just been heated up, and are glowing brighter than the rest of the screen.

So that line is kind of like the screen refresh - not the damper wires for a flatscreen ( which are way smaller ;) ).

You'll notice a similar effect on TV when there are monitors behind them. Because of the relative timing differences, the TV camera will capture frames that show the PC monitor half lit up.

C'mon, and I the only one that ever got curious about all this kind of stuff? :eek: :D

[mird-OC]

LOL. now KJ, can you tell us why TVs use fields? ;)

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by mird-OC
LOL. now KJ, can you tell us why TVs use fields? ;)

You mean the main power argument?

[Geek4Life]

This monitor seems as if it would be completely flat.

So it either isn't, or my eyes are knackered.

[mird-OC]

Originally posted by KingJackal
You mean the main power argument?

nah, i mean why TVs us 50/60 interlaced fields per second instead of 50/60 frames per second, or even just 25/30 frames per second.

it's apparently due to the phosphurs the used to use back in the early days. as we know they decided to base the frame rate on the AC oscillation (50/60Hz), but the problem was that the phosphur used would burn out if hit 50/60 times a second, so they decided to split an image into interlaced fields where each phospur was hit only 25/30 times a second. of course it wasn't long before the phosphurs could handle a higher refresh rate, but the standard was set in stone - as it is until today.

yes, a bit off topic... but i understand your curiousity :p

[matthew]

who really wants me to whine on about which monitor i'm getting..... anyway.... these were the options.. :p

have 1 hitachi CM828 21" going at 1600 x 1200@90hz, 0.21
have 2 hitachi CM721F 19" going at 1280 x 1024@85z, 0.20
have 1 dell 21" trini going at 1600 x 1200@85hz 0.24

well apart from a select few it seems most people agree that these "lines" or "wires" are not really noticable and that the ag has superior image quality compared to the shadow mask and is great for what i want to do. :) it seems as if the dell is the way to go hmmmmm..... it is also around $400 or cheaper than the other 2 options and it's black..

just a couple of q's for anyone that's had or has one..(dell)
- is 1yr warrenty enough or do these monitors have a reputation for crapping out after 1 year..?
- how is the text quaity? crisp?
-do these babies get very hot?

[utopian201]

what is the difference between flat screen and "TRUE FLAT"?

and yeh i only notice the wires when i especially try to look for them

[AcurA]

the P1110 - very crisp - great contrast... better that my D1626HT, heat wise nothing unusual.

Utopian: Flat screen - if u line a ruler vertically it's flush with the glass.... not horizontally, Perfect Flat is flat like the earth.... errr???... table top job hehehe

[KingJackal]

Originally posted by AcurA
Utopian: Flat screen - if u line a ruler vertically it's flush with the glass.... not horizontally, Perfect Flat is flat like the earth.... errr???... table top job hehehe

Yeah - that's it. They went from bubbles to cylinders to flat - only they called the cylinders 'flat', which makes life confusing.

Basically, making only one dimension flat doesn't require anywhere near as much distortion correction as making the whole thing flat - so the 'flat' monitors are just cheaper to make than the 'true flat' monitors. ;)

Both are better than bubble styl3z, though :).

[matthew]

o.k thanks for all the info/advice people..

just wanted to make sure that the text is crisp and clear on this monitor.... and it seems that it is ;)

....looks like its gonna be the dell :cool:

[AcurA]

all the best :)

[Kanz]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but how did you go matthew?

I just bought one of the Dell monitors last week and I love it!