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View Full Version : dispute with gyrotech.co.nz over sl75frn2-l


mcbeef
20-10-2003, 02:56 PM
i bought a this mobo , a xp 2500 , case etc , some 3200 ram etc from gyrotech a while back

anyway the mobo ran fine at 200fsb for a while but then one day it suddenly wouldn't boot at 200 fsb ( i hadn't made any physical changes ) . i dropped it down to 166 where it worked and left it like that ( I had some slightly stability problems still )

anyway a couple of months later i checked the case which they had assembled and noticed that there was heatsink but no fan on the nforce 2 northbridge . my stability problems were getting worse which is why i was looking for potential problems on the mobo

anyway the motherboard is still under warranty but gyrotech refuses to send it back to the distrubutor because apparently it doesn't include a fan for the northbridge chip and secondly because i ran my xp 2500 + at 200fsb for a short while ( before it started messing up ) i have voided the warranty on the motherboard

what i want to know from other soltek owners is does the 75-frn2-l include a fan on the northbridge chip?

even if its not an issue with the northbridge chip im still fairly annoyed that they can try and tell me that i have damaged the mobo by running at 200fsb , i can understand that i have voided the cpu warranty but it has nothing to do with the motherboard which is clearly faulty for some reason .

the ram runs fine at 200mhz as well , and i have done quite a bit of testing on the cpu and im fairly sure its not faulty . it runs okish at 166fsb ( well it boots at least )

btw this dispute is with andrew a staff member of gyrotech ( not his boss ) unfortunatly i cannot get hold of his boss .

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 03:02 PM
i have a 75-frn2-l and it doesnt have a fan on the northbridge either, just a heatsink.

i would like to hear how it goes as i have an almost identical system (xp2500+ 3200 ram), and i cant run the fsb above 166mhz.
i had convinced myself that it was the cpu but now im not so sure.

Tangy
20-10-2003, 03:06 PM
This is Andrew from Gyrotech.

Bin_Lagered wrote
"i have a 75-frn2-l and it doesnt have a fan on the northbridge either, just a heatsink.

i would like to hear how it goes as i have an almost identical system (xp2500+ 3200 ram), and i cant run the fsb above 166mhz.
i had convinced myself that it was the cpu but now im not so sure. "

I think this just proves what i was saying to you sam.

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 03:08 PM
what this suggests to me is that there may be a faulty batch of the model going around .

the box clearly states it can run at 200fsb , if it can't and other models can it means that its faulty

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 03:14 PM
hmm, this is all very helpful, except i cant prove its my mb thats limiting the fsb.

as im running a 2500+ which is only rated at 166 i cant be sure that my mb cant run at 200. :(

Valium
20-10-2003, 03:18 PM
I have a soltek 75FRN2-L but i got one of the old revisioins that had a fan on the NB, it runs fine up to around 210MHz where something starts to play up.

Ive got a 2500+ and geil ram (pc3500)

one question, is you jumper set to 166 or left at 133?

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 03:18 PM
problem as i see it is the majority of people with the sl75frn2-l are running it at 200mhz or over with the xp2500 , im wondering if they are using an older model or what

and its certainly not a problem with other motherboards so it definatly seems like its an issue with the soltek mobo not the xp2500+

Tangy
20-10-2003, 03:22 PM
What you will have to do, is prove to us that it is the fault of the motherboard, and not from running a 166fsb at 200, causing damage to the cpu, thus causing damage to the mainboard.
You will need to test your cpu at 200FSB in another Soltek board with your RAM.
Also, it is a known fact, that when overclocking, you should take appropriate measures to cool your system down.
Overclocking the cpu, also does make other parts of your system hotter, and not having a northbridge fan is not a good idea.

If you can prove to us, that its not a fault caused by overclocking then I will consider replacing it.
If not, you will be liable for a fee, as we are from our suppliers, and we will pass it on to you.
So if you accept this, we will replace it for you, provided that if it gets sent back to us, saying there is no fault, you agree to pay the testing fees.

As you said you may have an older revision of that board, it does not suggest that it is faulty, it does however suggest that it may not be capable of running in the way you have it.

This still does not convince me fullt that this board is faulty, as it runs fine when you set the cpu and ram at their recommended bus speeds.

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 03:26 PM
the way i see it if the newer revisions are not capable of running at 200fsb as stated on the box i can consider them to be faulty .
i guess i need to put the cpu in another nforce 2 motherboard and see how it goes

my system runs fine occed and stays reasonably cool , the zalman heatsink which you installed stops the heat building up , not to mention the 92mm fan

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 03:29 PM
imo the best way to test the mb would be to throw in a cpu which has previously run at 200 or one that is rated at 200 fsb.
i.e. 3000+ or 3200+

and as these are fairly rare, we are again faced with using a 2500 and overclocking it.

burst
20-10-2003, 03:29 PM
I have got the same m/b and cpu.

I am running smoothly on 200fsb, there is a fan on the northbridge thou :O

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 03:30 PM
im seeing some kind of pattern emerging here.

WhiteDragon
20-10-2003, 03:40 PM
My 75FRN2-L came with a fan on the northbridge.

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by WhiteDragon
My 75FRN2-L came with a fan on the northbridge.

. and does it run at 200 fsb?

Tangy
20-10-2003, 03:55 PM
SNIP SNIP FROM SOLTEKS SITE

Why did my system fail to boot up after I overclocked?
Whenever nVIDIA system fails to boot (including overclock and non-overclock cases), it requires a more guaranteed Reboot Procedure to restart system.
(1) To reboot nVIDIA system, users should first power off the system.

(2) If a "CPU Clock Select" Jumper is on board, restore this jumper setting to default setting.

(3) Execute the "Clear CMOS" procedures with "Clear CMOS" Jumper.

(4) Then press down "Insert" key of the keyboard before pressing down Power Button to start system. Do not release Insert Key until you can see the initial bootup screen appear.

(5) In some "overclocking cases by BIOS Setup" , if system still cannot boot up with the above 4 steps, please remove the on-board battery from the batterysocket and unplug the power cord as well. Keep the battery and power cord away from system in 10 to 20 seconds so as to make sure all power residue has faded away.

(6) After restoring the power cord and battery to system, make sure the "CPU Clock Select" Jumper is at "Default Setting" and then press the Power Button to restart system again. Please note that Step (5) will take the place of Step (3) and (4).

(7) After starting system, users should also enter "Advanced Chipset Features" of BIOS Setup and set the "FSB Frequency" to "CPU Default" value for a guaranteed bootup. However, user can also select a higher CPU clock to try overclocking again.

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 04:11 PM
that isn't really the issue


the way i see it , its totally dishonest for soltek to release a motherboard with a fan initially which is marketted and able to get nice fsb overclocks , then to cost-cut and cut out bits of the motherboard yet not take away the claims on the packaging of what its supposedly capable of .

the problem i see it is that i have probably damaged the nforce 2 northbridge chip from running it at 200fsb but the box clearly markets it as being able to do that , the nforce 2 chipset should be able to run a 166fsb cpu at 200fsb .

the fact is without the proper cooling , its not really running at nforce 2 spec and soltek would need to point this out and make sure people can understand that the cpu should not be overclocked fsb wise .

under the consumer rights act i am eligable to take gyrotech to the small claims court if they refuse to exchange the motherboard or refund it . i never entered into a contract with the distributor so its not my problem if the distributor chooses to say its not faulty .

gyrotech refuse to give me the distros number so i can give them a call and discuss the issues with the new model and they are only willing to replace it if the distro does and if they don't it costs me .

if i don't get any resolution i will probably try taking them to the consumer court and see what they have to say about it .

im not even that worried about the fsb overclock its just the principal of being sold something which is fairly much faulty because of dodgy marketting from soltek and no warning from anyone responsible for selling it .

Grrr!!
20-10-2003, 04:18 PM
Even if the board is not faulty, if it says that it is capable of running at 200MHz FSB, and your board cannot, you have a case under the consumer guarantees act, and are entitled to a refund from Gyrotech.

Overclocking is a feature of the board, and therefore it cannot be said that you voided the warranty by doing so. In much the same way, Toyota couldn't decide not to honour the warranty on your car if you broke the speed limit at some stage in the past.

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 04:22 PM
this is getting interesting, i would really like to try my cpu in another board. As im starting to think i got a bung one too.

but i dont know many people with a system that i could use.
i may have to ring some friends

Overclocking is a feature of the board. but running it at 200 fsb is not overclocking as it supports that speed.
overclocking is 200+

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 04:33 PM
nope it clearly says 200fsb

on the box
i can take a photo if you want

it has a sticker saying

FSB 400
Agp 8x
and underneath that dual channel ddr 400

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by lunablue
I'm pretty sure it wont say that it oficially supports a 200fsb, what it probably will say is that is supports ddr400, meaning a fsb of 133/166 and ram at 200, not fsb and ram at 200

sorry but you are wrong, it does support 200 fsb, thats why i bought it.

the SL-75FRN (original nforce) doesnt
the SL-75FRN2 is the nforce2 board and it does support 200 fsb

WhiteDragon
20-10-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Bin_Lagered
. and does it run at 200 fsb? Yes it runs fine at a FSB of 200.

Have you tried running it at 200FSB but with a lower multiplier so that it's running at around stock MHz speed? You don't really have any right to claim a refund if you aren't getting a good overclock, but on the other hand if the board won't actually run at 200FSB you've got a good chance in the small claims court.

Valium
20-10-2003, 04:38 PM
well a few questions for ya:

what bio version, what type of ram and its timings, what powersupply, what were you attempting to run it at?

Grrr!!
20-10-2003, 04:40 PM
As per here [http://www.soltek.com.tw/English/product/75frn2-rl.htm] (http://www.soltek.com.tw/English/product/75frn2-rl.htm) the board supports 200MHz FSB operation:

FSB 400/333/266 MHz

lunablue
20-10-2003, 04:40 PM
yes i am wrong :o just had a look at their site and it does support it, so i deleted my post

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 04:40 PM
i upgraded to the latest version of the bios yesterday but it didn't make any difference

im using the ram at its spp , of 8 , 4 , 4 running 512 in dual channel its geil ram
the ram runs fine at 200 and i have tried different ram , it made no difference


and im using a 400watt power supply , i have one hd , no cdrom or disk drive and a couple of fans , oh and a r9800 pro

Tangy
20-10-2003, 04:41 PM
Basically we need you to make sure that is in fact the motherboard that is faulty and not you cpu etc.

You need to get a cpu which is able to run reliably at 200FSB and test that it does run in your machine reliably - Prime95 for an hour or so. If it does that. Run Memtest with the cpu and your ram and make sure it runs reliably.

If it is not reliable then it will be returned to our supplier for replacement.

You must realise that we need proof as much as our supplier in turn will that your motherboard is at fault and not some other issue.

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 04:44 PM
ok well besides for the fact that almost all xp 2500s with a decent nforce 2 chipset can handle 200 ( im not going to say all as im sure somewhere out there is a xp 2500 that can't )

you need to have a box ready at your store with a nforce 2 mobo which is known to be able to run at 200fsb , so i can test it out , i don't know anyone locally with a nforce 2 motherboard i can test it in .


i think the fact that there seems to be a link between the latest models with no fan and raising the fsb is enough proof

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Valium
well a few questions for ya:

what bio version, what type of ram and its timings, what powersupply, what were you attempting to run it at?

i have cheapo elixier 3200 ram, have tried almost every timings up to like 3-6-6-10 and it still isnt stable.

psu is 400w came with case.

have tried running at 6x200 all the way to 13.5x166.
it wont even run at 8x170

Grrr!!
20-10-2003, 04:53 PM
Whatever happened to 'the customer is always right' ;).

Anyway, in my book it is a bit of an ask to expect a customer to go to all the effort of finding the hardware to prove that something is faulty, especially seeing as though the way you're going, he'll most likely have to bring all that stuff into your shop and show you.

If I was in your situation, I would invite the customer to bring their machine over to your premises, and use one of those MSI nForce II boards you advertise as having 200MHz fsb support as well as the fact you have them in stock, to test the customers CPU and memory at 200MHz DDR operation, and if they run stably in there, and not in the customer's soltek board, then take the soltek board back, and either replace or refund the customers money. And in doing such, avoid advertising such as this thread which essentially does not help your business.

Tangy
20-10-2003, 04:56 PM
You seem to miss the point though...you have to prove that the motheroard is at fault and does not perform as advertised.

It can be quite logical that after months of having your cpu overclocked that it has become weaker and unable to run reliably at that speed.

Saying all 2500's run sweet at 200FSB is crazy aswell. We have lots of customers with this board and cpu and they are only able to run 2200 clock speeds and going any higher makes it unstable.

Can you please test it accordingly using basic problem solving techniques and get back to us.

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 04:57 PM
i kind of owe gyrotech an apology well sort of


whoever setup my mobo at gyrotec ( yes i was lazy and the only charged $10 an hour ) put the jumper settings to 100/133 so 166 was actually an overclock

im running at 200 now just doing some stability tests

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Grrr!!
my book it is a bit of an ask to expect a customer to go to all the effort of finding the hardware to prove that something is faulty

i agree, saying that he has to find an amd cpu that runs 200 fsb is effectively saying an overclocked 2500 or a 3200, and who has one of them ??

lunablue
20-10-2003, 05:00 PM
i know with my motherboard (soltek drv5) it was a mission to get it running at a 166fsb, but after looking around I found out how to get it to run, have a look at this thread from amd forums, it may help you
http://www.amdforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=242665

marine
20-10-2003, 06:45 PM
you should right an email to target .

explain the situation , next thing you know there are hidden camera's going in and there on tv :)

MoNk
20-10-2003, 06:51 PM
Just jumping in to say something;

That is poor customer service. We have alot of members here that runs online stores mcbeef. The are both trustworthy and helpful. You should check them out for your next purchase - just look in some sigs around here ;)

I am in no way referring to the actual issue with the motherboard.

Tangy
20-10-2003, 07:25 PM
Cheers for that Monk...have just been told about this thread as i havent had a read for a few days :P

This is Tu the manager and most people around here that know me personally know that there is no way we would be giving poor customer service. Our service is first rate compared to some of the other online resellers and we have a retail front to deal with customers aswell where most do not.

After seeing what my staff wrote i still do not believe that we have given bad customer service. All we did is give him good advice.

How did we give bad customer service?

How should we have dealt with this situation?

The problem was the customer believed the board was faulty.
We have to determine that it is faulty before we can return it for replacement. From what ive read and what ive been told by my staff that is what has happened has it not?

PS. I will reply to your email shortly Sam :)

Deviant
20-10-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Tangy
You seem to miss the point though...you have to prove that the motheroard is at fault and does not perform as advertised.


Consumer guarentee act protects the consumer which many computer shops forget. Just cause others do something doesn't make it right. It is for the shop to confirm.

If Ford made sale claiming a Falcon does 200km/hr, and it only does 195km/hr, then repair/replace/refund is in order. If a claim is made, then a claim has to be met, not just the stock standard 50 or 100 km/hr.

Save yourself some court costs, and take it on the chin. It's not the fact it works, it's that it doesn't work to the advertised statement.

fatsanchez
20-10-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by mcbeef
i kind of owe gyrotech an apology well sort of


whoever setup my mobo at gyrotec ( yes i was lazy and the only charged $10 an hour ) put the jumper settings to 100/133 so 166 was actually an overclock

im running at 200 now just doing some stability tests

i'm assuming they turned out ok?

Introvert
20-10-2003, 08:24 PM
this week on ocnz: noob overclocker meets noob computer store.

coming next week : how to assemble a computer.

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 08:27 PM
hmm, tried jumper in both settings and still no luck.

might try my cpu in someone elses board see if its the problem

cadmax
20-10-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Tangy
What you will have to do, is prove to us that it is the fault of the motherboard, and not from running a 166fsb at 200, causing damage to the cpu, thus causing damage to the mainboard.
You will need to test your cpu at 200FSB in another Soltek board with your RAM.
Also, it is a known fact, that when overclocking, you should take appropriate measures to cool your system down.
Overclocking the cpu, also does make other parts of your system hotter, and not having a northbridge fan is not a good idea.

If you can prove to us, that its not a fault caused by overclocking then I will consider replacing it.
If not, you will be liable for a fee, as we are from our suppliers, and we will pass it on to you.
So if you accept this, we will replace it for you, provided that if it gets sent back to us, saying there is no fault, you agree to pay the testing fees.

As you said you may have an older revision of that board, it does not suggest that it is faulty, it does however suggest that it may not be capable of running in the way you have it.

This still does not convince me fullt that this board is faulty, as it runs fine when you set the cpu and ram at their recommended bus speeds.

well if it's out of the box and it will do 200fsb then it should be ok cos the mobo will do it there for the bord should do it ok
and if the supplyer says it's due to OC then they should go to hell.
it would be like buying a car with 250KM/h on the speedo and when you get up to 100km/h the car is not supported and then every one says go to hell over it

the supplyer should RAM it !:mad:

Wibber
20-10-2003, 08:53 PM
I had( mate has it now) a frn2-L it came with a NB cooler and i took it off cos it was loud, it was sweet at 200x10, allthough I have reasonable case cooling


Saying all 2500's run sweet at 200FSB is crazy aswell.
I dunno what you are trying to say here, but it sounds left handed special needs child with right handed scisors wrong.
fsb speed has nothing to do with cpu speed in terms of stability. providing he can low the multiplier (most new socket a's are factory unlocked yes?) he should be able to run at 200x9, below stock cpu clock. hell I had my old durrie 600 running at 200 fsb.

We have lots of customers with this board and cpu and they are only able to run 2200 clock speeds and going any higher makes it unstable.

2200+ or 2200mhz? 2200 mhz is 200x11, the default multi, so that blows yor 200 fsb theory, and the board suports 3200+'s, so it can be the former

you have me so confused

Bin_Lagered
20-10-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Wibber
fsb speed has nothing to do with cpu speed in terms of stability. providing he can low the multiplier (most new socket a's are factory unlocked yes?) he should be able to run at 200x9, below stock cpu clock. hell I had my old durrie 600 running at 200 fsb.


is that right ???
cause if it is that almost confirms that my mb is the problem :(

swiftynz
20-10-2003, 09:57 PM
This is actually quite an interesting issue. I used to be under the impression that bus speed was totally dependant on the motherboard, but after seeing Dumass' 2500+ in an NF7-S 2.0 that wouldn't do 200mhz i'm not so sure.

Perhaps the problem is that thermal paste was not properly applied on the northbridge? Could be the problem in Dumass' case too since I've seen pics of NF7's with thermal paste covering less than 25% of the nb chip. I was quite impressed with mine, the thermal paste covered ~80%.

Would removing the nb heatsink to have a look void your warranty? (I hope not cos I just replaced my nb cooler with a Zalman heatsink)

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 10:25 PM
well its definatly more stable then it was at 200 before , it crashed after 30 mins of running the prima stress test but then again i was moving the fan around while it was running its possible i bumped something . i guess i will try it again now and see if i can crash it again , the cpu was only running at 55 degrees ( abs2 temp ) when it crashed so im doubting it was the cpu

i guess i will try again .



i can handle the cpu not working fully at 200fsb , what bothered me was it wouldn't even boot at 200fsb

as for how did you give bad service

well i got fairly annoyed when the resolution by andrew when asking him about the problem was him blocking me on msn , he was only willing to discuss the problem when i created a public thread on this board which is exactly why i did it . i wasn't exactly happy about making a public thread as i now don't like my chances of my warranty being valid on any other parts .


btw bin_lagered does your com boot into whatever operating system you are running and then become unstable or does it not boot at all .

MoNk
20-10-2003, 10:42 PM
That's extremely poor service if he blocked you.
Is that true Tangy?

swiftynz
20-10-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by MoNk
That's extremely poor service if he blocked you.
Is that true Tangy? I don't think that's really any of our business, true or not.

After thinking about it more I would almost put money on the problem being lack of thermal paste on the northbridge. It just remains to be seen whether rectifying this problem voids your warranty.

The damage could be permanent anyway since you ran it at 200mhz for a while before it failed.

As has been said before, get another cpu that runs at 200mhz fsb and try it in your board or try your cpu in another board.

mcbeef
20-10-2003, 11:03 PM
the problem has been fixed by myself with the mobo


the northbridge is fine , the mobo jumpers weren't setup correctly by gyrotech , i just noticed that a few hours ago and sorted it .

Tangy
20-10-2003, 11:07 PM
Points noted duly...some good advice aswell!

Introvert: Wouldnt say we were a noob computer store (been in this business long enough!)...although quite a funny comment :D

CADMAX: You need to learn some good England! Cant seem to make sense of your comments..maybe im too much of a noob


Sam: if we gave bad service in any way i apologise..you know you can email me personally..Andrew has been spoken to..

Wibbler: The 2200+ typo was meant to be 2200 or 11x200..we have sold around 30 of these motherboards 2RL's and 2L's in the last 2 months with 2500 Bartons.

Deviant&Grrr: Andrew knows McBeef personally and knows he is capable of testing a setup properly..if it was another customer incapable of testing properly or someone that said here test this it aint working we will always test the setup for them and see if we can find the fault..if we had every customer that ever had a problem asking us to fault find for them we would be doing that 24/7 when alot of the time its quite obvious what the problem is and saves time for everyone...cheers for the input tho..

Deviant: The Consumer Guarantee's Act states..if a product does not do as advertised then yes the customer is entitled to a refund/repair/replacement. I dont think ive denied him that. What i make sure my staff do is that they have to make sure that if something is claimed to be faulty..they or the customer need to prove that it is faulty..and if you look in the Act the onus of proof is on??? ;)

Tangy
20-10-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by swiftynz
I don't think that's really any of our business, true or not.

After thinking about it more I would almost put money on the problem being lack of thermal paste on the northbridge. It just remains to be seen whether rectifying this problem voids your warranty.

The damage could be permanent anyway since you ran it at 200mhz for a while before it failed.

As has been said before, get another cpu that runs at 200mhz fsb and try it in your board or try your cpu in another board.

Hmm wouldnt like to pick which way the supplier would go if we removed the heatsink and added some good thermal paste ;) Anyone else had to deal with something like this before????
If it was me personally id just do what makes it run best :D

pineal
20-10-2003, 11:36 PM
This is pretty silly, this is not something that should be debated here.

I have watched this event unfold over the day, both over the thread and in the shop. I want to clarify one or two things:

Basically Andrew was sent a message (in MSN ... ie. personal) saying something along the lines of "My motherboard is missing a fan that its meant to have, its faulty, I want it replaced or repaired" At that point I began to research known issues etc with that particular board.

What I want to clarify is this:

We NEVER said that we would not replace the board under its warranty. We said certain activities may void warranty .... pretty standard no? Andrew said repeatedly for it to be brought in for testing, also warning that if a fault was not found he would be charged a fee. As in any business time is money. If he had brought his PC in, and we had found the jumper setting issue, it would not have been charged for as it would have fallen under our labour warranty.


My advise for any future prospective fault returners to any company.

1. Check all cables and jumpers first.
2. Do a strip down fault check.
3. Document faults clearly, read up on similar known faults.
4. Phone, visit or email shop in question with results/descriptions etc
5. Return equipment with a copy of your invoice and any other relevant material.


With all this done, this allows anyone processing a return authorisation to do it in a timely and accurate fashion.

The other reason is that if you do return it and there is no fault, you will be charged ... and its not cheap.

Did I even need to say any of this?

whetu
20-10-2003, 11:45 PM
alrighty, time for some intervention.

Both sides have had a chance to speak, the problem is more or less solved, so I'm locking this thread

topic over. finished. kaput.